MOS: Defender

Post here your ideas or full suggestions of MOS
DragonS
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MOS: Defender

Postby DragonS » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:52 am

dunno about skill names, can be another

WO rank (req education to use class equipments so not EN, but possible CO mb)

weapon - shotgun, no crits, model got shield(or at armor lvl3 skill)

shield:
+10 shield&0.25 shield regen per level
level 2 armor bonus (x2 bonus shield&shield from armor item), 1 extra buff per armor item in game, but same icon&discription. passive
buff give to max shield. so when you pickup kevlar - you get 50/100 shield with shield regen +1
like opa give 35shields&0.5 shield reg will give +70&+1 in total
level 3 energy discharge, cost 100 energy, cast time 1sec, aoe dmg(energy in hero x 10, burns all energy from hero), radius 3-5; slow all ground enemies in area for -75%ms&as for 5sec, for massive 3sec, for cacu/dar 1-2sec.
give energy leak buff for hero&all ally heroes for 5sec(or just shortcuit buff that burns all energy 1 time)
level 4 team shield, same as zeratul ability in lotv( all ally in radius 5 get +shield), +100 shield for 30sec. cost 100-150 energy, cd 180+/- sec

grenades:
level 1 smoke as rifle
level 2 frag grenade(level 2 power)
level 3 flashbang - stun light enemies, slow armored&massive, can give flaregun slow effect on ally for 5 sec, prevents ability use for enemies, 5-15sec effect time, cd 30-45sec
level 4 improve cd, energy cost, range for all grenades

armor:
+2 str&armor per lvl (or just armor)
level 1 gas mask - no smoke slow effect, less some injure effects, slower sprint loss/faster sprint recovery. passive
level 2 improved selfaid, (same as si, but less cost). heal 70hp for 10sec, chance to heal injure, passive if hero got ss, but will unlock selfaid without ss2
level 3 combat shield(improve). +3-5armor, half bse chance to get injure, chance to avoid melee&range attack or same as opa damage reduce type. passive
if with active version - ms/as penalty, better armor and damage reduce bonus when active.
level 4 psiho - give painkiller buff, + 4 str&dex, +5armor for 30sec, cd 180+ sec, cost 75-100. used only himself

plasma shield/soldier skills is same, can be both or one of them
Last edited by DragonS on Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Znimu
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Re: MOS: Defender

Postby Znimu » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:51 pm

Seems an other interesting suggestion. I will need to study it in a more detailed way when I got time.
I already think that it would be better to get the improved selfaid at lvl 1 and gas mask at lvl 2. So the players not very experimented can have the heal very quickly if needed (when they are lvl 1, as for soldier skills which unlock selfaid at lvl 1).

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Billyum
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Re: MOS: Defender

Postby Billyum » Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:52 am

This looks a lot like the Enforcer from UAC, Only with way more armor and no dps option.

"gas mask - no smoke slow effect, less some injure effects, slower sprint loss/faster sprint recovery. passive"
This sounds overpowered for someone that knows to only use the top 20% of their sprint bar, How much of an improvement to the sprint loss/recovery were you planning?

Other than the Energy Discharge and the Grenade skill tree the Defender looks like it's only role is to tank damage. I could easily see someone picking up an SPCS in PMC mode and then just absorb all their bullets like its nothing.

I also noticed that level 1 for the shield tree is missing.

Znimu
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Re: MOS: Defender

Postby Znimu » Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:14 pm

Billyum wrote:This looks a lot like the Enforcer from UAC, Only with way more armor and no dps option.

Yes I thought same.
Anyways a new shotgun class would be great, as there is only 2 shotguns right now. Just will need to be carefull to not copy the Enforcer.

May need some rework though. As a full tanky class can't really work on UAR, as in Nightmare mode for an example it would become useless. And this defender could not be allowed in PMC mode, as it would be to much powerfull considering his capacity to tank the PMC as Billyum says.

Please think to it DragonS, and try to give him damage or support oriented abilities instead of full tank ;)

DragonS
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Re: MOS: Defender

Postby DragonS » Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:25 pm

"Yes I thought same." - hard to make new heroes is almost same maps when most basic skils&classes already used

" in Nightmare mode for an example it would become useless" - in nm many classes useless when fighting solo

"full tanky class can't really work on UAR" - approve?

"be allowed in PMC mode" - looks strange, but possible, cuz this class.. idea that its guard in laboratories

about dps - he got is: shotgun with good dmg and grenades.

he can have shotgun with burst fie attack speed as a base
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Znimu
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Re: MOS: Defender

Postby Znimu » Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:43 pm

DragonS wrote:"Yes I thought same." - hard to make new heroes is almost same maps when most basic skils&classes already used

It is why I don't really care, I won't do a copy of the enforcer but it is definitely not what you propose.

DragonS wrote:" in Nightmare mode for an example it would become useless" - in nm many classes useless when fighting solo

Yes but what will do a tank in NM if he can't tank ? It is the point.

DragonS wrote:"full tanky class can't really work on UAR" - approve?

I don't understand what you mean. But I can precise my thoughts : UA is about to run or kite when overwhelmed, if a class allows to just prone and fire, eventually afking, it breaks the gameplay, so I would prefer to not have a to much tanky class.

DragonS wrote:"be allowed in PMC mode" - looks strange, but possible, cuz this class.. idea that its guard in laboratories

I find the Enforcer of UAC already to much tanky for the PMC mode. It breaks the game in my opinion. And your proposal is still more tanky, so your defender would definitely not be allowed in PMC mode in this state. That is why it would be better to have only one talent tree tanky, you should choose shield or armor, keep one of them, not both, and replace the other by a dps / support tree :)
And perhaps can keep the tree you don't keep for the Defender for an other class later.

DragonS wrote:about dps - he got is: shotgun with good dmg and grenades.

He has only grenades then, as every class got a weapon.

DragonS wrote:he can have shotgun with burst fie attack speed as a base

Not sure if burst fire suits well for shotguns. But maybe it is just the name who is bothering, it could be an automatic shotung upgrade somewhere in the tree, which could allow to fire faster. But try to think to active capacities too, I think that interesting active capacities are what make a class funny or not.

In an other hand, active capacities may be the hardest to do in the editor, but don't bridle your imagination for that ;)
Some simple active capacities can be very fun to use.

DragonS
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Re: MOS: Defender

Postby DragonS » Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:41 pm

"what will do a tank in NM if he can't tank" - same for medic without energy/low lvl (like def without armor or low lvl)
same with sfaat that cant get any ln's cuz they die to fast, same with fss that lost all energy and cant recover it fast enouth, same with etc...
if def with shield - he can tank same as fb but earler cuz dont need to focus on dps + longer cuz got more armors

"And your proposal is still more tanky" more passive tanky but less cuz enfy got skill that give much damage reduce so he can tank cacu(cyborg with stone wall can to..)
why not shield&armor - just dont give plazma from firebat
but actually its class for shield (with aoe shield ofc)

"active capacities"
can remove steel shield(armor skills) but will need to change weapon a bit and add some ammo types + 1-2 ability for shield skills

"He has only grenades then" - yep + every1 can pickup grenades and use mrl/explosives&etc... and another spam

"don't bridle your imagination" - impossible, cuz i seen to many bugs with skills and seen how editor looks inside..
so i suggesting simple skill that already done in sc2(company/this map), just with some changes.. most ideas

cuz first need to fix old bugs to not make new
(you writed that some of them fixed 3-4 times already but they still in game, just im doing bugs with another actions..)
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Znimu
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Re: MOS: Defender

Postby Znimu » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:05 pm

DragonS wrote:cuz first need to fix old bugs to not make new
(you writed that some of them fixed 3-4 times already but they still in game, just im doing bugs with another actions..)

Yes, anyways I won't release a new class if it is not fully tested, and balanced.

Don't hesitate to tell me which bugs. If you look at the first post of this topic, you can see I have already done many fixes. I try my best, but sometimes I fix something, and it has consequences I did not see. So yes sometimes need several attempts to really fix a bug.

Well a full tanky class may be possible, but I will have to check it carefully, and probably down the tank capacity to not get an invicible class.

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Billyum
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Re: MOS: Defender

Postby Billyum » Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:20 am

Znimu wrote:Yes I thought same.
Anyways a new shotgun class would be great, as there is only 2 shotguns right now. Just will need to be carefull to not copy the Enforcer.


After I get done working on the Scout Sniper I'll start working on the Vanguard [Shotgun dps/support class]. I may even start sooner if I run into another brick wall with the Scout Sniper's balance.


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