SFAAT possible update

Post here your ideas about a MOS rework.
Zed
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:44 pm

Re: SFAAT possible update

Postby Zed » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:14 am

P.S. EU server dont have enouth expirienced players yet that can travel on map at any difficult without giving extra exp to medics


If MOS is not super easy to play it is fine imo. Also lots of MOS's require you to travel around the map too. UAC's pl is harder to play than current sfaat ofc, and untrained lns do die at spawnpoints, yet it is playable (last time i played it at least) and a very important MOS at harder difficulties. You can also make untrained LN's invulnerable at their spawnpoints.

DragonS
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: SFAAT possible update

Postby DragonS » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:20 am

"If MOS is not super easy to play" - i know about what you writed, played PL(in nm diff) and didnt had problems with LN's

current SFAAT is the result of much discussion and debate, so there is no sense is to continue in a similar vein,
but in the UAC no SFAAT - there combined PL and SFAAT
in UAR was no such plans
dead account to prevent non-game discussions with znimu

Kami no Varou
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:22 pm

Re: SFAAT possible update

Postby Kami no Varou » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:29 am

DragonS wrote:if we follow your logic, sfaat shouldget LN's from civilians.


... Is that such a bad idea ? I mean, it's the UT army that provide them weapon, right ? They couldn't possibly get rocket launchers and incendiary rounds on their own ?

So, not properly turning civilians into LN, but like having an ability that u can only use in Thalim and Guslani and that spawn a LN at a building.

My idea would be that u have an ability that call down equipment (drop pod) that'd be a SFAAT special item he could use to make a LN spawn if he's in Thalim/Guslani. Depending on the level of that ability, u gain access to more variety to equipment (new types of LN), and more equipment overall.

I'd even suggest that you wouldn't have a proper equipment limit, only a coodown at which u can call new equipment. But well, that'd mean a hell to balance early and late game - but it would have the merit to actually reward a SFAAT that doesn't let his LN die while still allowing to split efficiently to defend town ('cause reworking SFAAT is nice, but if he's nerfed too hard, defending town is gonna be difficult).

'cause yeah, I still don't like calling LNs from nowhere, that still sounds to me like you're not actually training locals.
Now, maybe I'm stuck on unimportant details but I still don't like how it sounds.

DragonS
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: SFAAT possible update

Postby DragonS » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:39 am

"So, not properly turning civilians into LN, but like having an ability that u can only use in Thalim and Guslani and that spawn a LN at a building." - where you was all this mounth and before when we discussed about it in discord?
btw i can do it if Znimг likes the idea (btw its almost same as spawn in TCP actually - same logic - just another places LN training])
*your other text about same idea, that i answered before
dead account to prevent non-game discussions with znimu

Znimu
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Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: SFAAT possible update

Postby Znimu » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:55 am

No Varou, it has already been discussed and the decision has been taken. Else I would not have let DragonS work for so long on the rework.
Civilians are not soldiers, and in addition in chapter 3 there is no more civilians in the AO, so every buildings are empty.

LNs come from adjacent military station, so from the TCP. Not sure if you did it DragonS, I'd like that when a LN spawns, he is invulnerable and uncontrollable until he reaches the SFAAT. So he auto-moves to the SFAAT just after his spawn, the best would be that he follows the SFAAT until he is selected by the player, so maybe he would become selectable and controllable when he reaches the SFAAT but keep following him while no other order.
You may study the convoy system to see how to do that.

Kami no Varou
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:22 pm

Re: SFAAT possible update

Postby Kami no Varou » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:11 pm

Alright, alright, I didn't even know the decision had been taken on discord already (if I was petty I'd say u should have posted that in announcement - oh, wait, I am, right ? ^^').

DragonS wrote:where you was all this mounth and before when we discussed about it in discord?

Well, obviously not there. Busy probably, or on another game. When I don't come on discord for a month, I don't have fun scolling throught all that has been said during that time, sorry.

Alright, you seem to know what u do then, I might also have been misled by DragonS wording - no blame intended, just google trad is not exactly perfect.
Keep up the good work.

Znimu
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Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: SFAAT possible update

Postby Znimu » Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:26 pm

Yes you may miss the discussions about SFAAT. No problem, you only give your mind. But a little late :cote:

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Billyum
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Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:15 am

Re: SFAAT possible update

Postby Billyum » Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:08 am

I like where this is going, Though I have a few suggestions to make.

1. Spawn Locations:

I think that Thalim, Guslani, Highlands, Balaad, Farmer Akma's House, The Mayor's House, And the Airport should be added as possible spawn locations as well. These are areas that you would expect Local Nationals to be operating in while trying to keep the AO secure. To adjust for the additional spawn points the group call could be from one of three closest points.

2. Training and Leadership:

I would recommend making Leadership decide both what type of LNs you can call as well as how many you can control. Training would then be purely for improving the LNs.
For example:
Leadership 1 = Unlocks Riflemen, 2 LNs maximum
Leadership 2 = Unlocks Automatic Riflemen and Javelin Gunners, 2 LNs maximum
Leadership 3 = Unlocks Combat Engineers and Squad Designated Marksman, 3 LNs maximum
Leadership 4 = 4 LNs maximum

Training 1 = Improves LN's stats
Training 2 = Unlocks first set of LN abilities
Training 3 = Further Improves LN's stats
Training 4 = Unlocks all LN abilities

This would prevent an SFAAT from getting a squad of four fully upgraded LNs (Most likely 2 of them being ARs) with only level 2 Leadership and level 4 Training.

3. Add LN, Group Call energy cost/cool down:
It would be nice if the Energy cost and Cool Down for Group call was dependent on what LNs were being called. For example:

Group Call base Energy Cost and cool down = 60 Energy, 80 Seconds. Each level of training lowers Energy Cost by 5

Each Rifleman added to the call increases cost by 30 energy and 15 seconds
Each Javelin Gunner increases cost by 40 energy and 25 seconds
Each Automatic Rifleman, Combat Engineer, and Squad Designated Marksman increases cost by 50 energy and 40 seconds

Calling in a squad of 4 rifleman would cost 160-180 energy and have a cool down of 2 minutes 20 seconds, Calling in a squad 2 ARs and 2 SDMs would cost 240-260 energy and have a cool down of 4 minutes.

LNs could also have a set respawn time before more of that type can be called in again.
For example:

Rifleman: Charge cool down = 30 seconds
Javelin Gunner: Charge cool down = 40 seconds
Combat Engineer, AR, SDM: Charge cool down = 50 seconds

This way if you lost an AR (Assuming that you had two) you would have to wait 50 seconds before you could call in a replacement, Even if Group Call is off cool down.

4. LN balance changes:
One thing that has bugged be for a long time is that with LN Engineer's barricade and the LN AR's high dps there is very little reason to chose anything other than these two LN types. I have came up with possible ways to make these LNs better balanced.

Rifleman:
Buffs: Lower the level requirement for Burst fire down to level 2 training.
Nerfs: Raise the level requirement for one of his level 2 training abilities to level 4 training (probably frag nade).

Javelin Gunner:
Buffs: Give him the Disarm skill and possibly Claymore as well.

Automatic Rifleman:
Nerfs: Lower Incendiary Rounds damage by 1/3rd (I think it is 12 damage so drop it to 8).

Combat Engineer:
Nerfs: Remove Barricade, Increase MMG turret's cool down by 10 seconds.
Buffs: Give him Repair (at 1/3rd the speed as the Engineer MOS), Disarm, as well as increase the maximum number of MMG turrets to 2 per Engineer.

SDM:
Buffs: Possibly increase base damage (he might not need it).

5. Call ship/Add supply:
I don't think that the supply drop fits with the SFAAT's role. The LN Dropship is fine as a Nightmare SI, Though I still think it's a little bit out of place.

Znimu
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Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: SFAAT possible update

Postby Znimu » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:41 am

Not sure about spawns locations. In the third chapter, every buildings are empty. But of course it is RP side. No idea if it is good balance side. I think that I will let only the TCP in a first test.

Else I agree with every ideas you give here.

Well I don't know how it will evolve, as I became mad on DragonS, language and cultural barrier, that kind of stuff :triste1:
And so DragonS left Discord. He seems to think that the only solution against our communication issue is to prevent any communication. He already removed me from the SC2 friends list for the same reason long ago, as I became mad too.

But he gave me his last map with his work on the SFAAT, so I may have a tough base for the SFAAT rework.
Anyways thanks for your work on this DragonS. I finish the Prototype, then I may study it on details.
And you know, as long as you speak about UAR only, I don't become mad ;)

But : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAsp4rn9QnM
xD


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