Platoon leader rework and suggestions

Post here your ideas about a MOS rework.
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Platoon leader rework and suggestions

Postby Merak65 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:12 pm

Toughts and suggestion on how to improve Platoon Leader class
Let's face it, platoon leader is important but not very fun to play, here's a couple of suggestions about how to make it more fun without breaking his balance and his primary Aura buffer role.

-Add in the ability '' sitrep ''
Triggered by pressing Z and Z again ( like in the medic class ), sitrep ability pings all allies suffering from aliments or low health, this would help the platoon leader to have a simpler way to get the overall situation of the team's health and help out with field aid if needed.

-Ability rework '' Field Aid ''
The thing costs too much energy for its effectiveness, 87 energy makes the platoon leader unable, unless at full energy and with upgrades, to help someone, use the focus fire ability and laser-designate a target at the same time.

Here's how I would make the ability:
[ energy cost: 45 ; cooldown: 15 seconds ; heal: 65 hp over 15 sec ; removes moderate aliments ]
This way we make the field aid ability far more dynamic ( more casts ) and more powefoul ( faster healing and removes aliments ), it might turn out that making it remove moderate aliments is too powerfoul, but it's nothing some playtesting couldn't easily reveal.
If removing moderate aliments turns out to be too powerfoul, i would make it at least remove minor lacerations.

-Ability rework '' laser designator ''
Laser designator is good, very good, but as it is right now it has limited range and a considerable cooldown time, wich limits both its effectiveness and its '' help the team '' factor.

Here's I would rework it:
[ energy cost: 25 ; cooldown: untill the designated target is taken down ( you can only focus down one boss at the time, but if he goes down fast you can retarget faster than with a cooldown ) ; range: give it the same range of binos ( allowing for long-range spotting and targeting ) ]

-Ability rework '' binoculars ''
The class isn't long range and yet it has binos that do not spot for the team ... You can already tell where I am going with the rework, we make it less effective and less spammable but team-shared.

Here's I would make it:
[ energy cost: 25 ; cooldown: 25 seconds ; range: 30 ; AoE: 8 tiles ; spots for the whole team ]

-Comment '' Focus fire ''
Focus fire seems kinda fine to me, very effective if timed right, has a skill gap to learn when to use it and when to gather energy to use it, duration seems fine too.

-Ability rework '' Call for fire ''
Let's face it, if you are not planning a barrage over time using a call for fire is next to useless in a class that can't upgrade it to be faster.

I don't know exactly if this would make the PL more fun to use, but it would sureley fit better with his '' support '' theme:
I would change call for fire and split it in 2 abilities, '' CFF: flare '' and '' CFF: smoke '', I don't really need to explain much more, abilities energy cost would be the same of the Fire Support Specialist ones, but the cooldown would be higher, forcing the PL to learn when to use em and when it's best to conserve shells.

-New ability '' On the double ''
Increases the movement speed of nearby allies by 25%
[ energy cost: 45 ; cooldown: 90 seconds ; AoE: 8 tiles radius around the PL ; duration: 8 seconds ]

As simple as effective, it would allow the platoon leader for much higher close-quarter combat and kiting, while still helping the others around by buffing their speed.
Ability would also affect bots, however because it's percentage based the speed increase would keep the player/bot speed ratio the same.
Ability doesn't have much range, I belive this would be a great incentive for people to stick and protect the PL that, in exchange, buffs and heals them.

-Comment about the PL's grenade.
I like the ability, I don't like the fact that's on PL, as simple as that ...
I don't think PL should have access to DPS based abilities, and here's the sticky part...

We are trying to make PL more fun to use, but taking off his only AOE damage ability wouldn't exactly help our cause, even doe it would increase the PL's role of support.
However we could add in something rather unique and fun, while at the same time increasing his support factor.

Here's my tought, platoon leaders tend to meet other companies platoon leaders more often, to discuss strategies, put up cover fire, plan high-risk operations and so on ...

This leads me into suggesting to fully remove both the grenade and its upgrade tree to add this one instead:

-Upgrade '' Logistics and Support ''

-Level 1: unlocks ability '' call for reinforcements ''
-Level 2: grants '' call for reinforcements '' a canche to get more specific kind of soldiers
-Level 3: unlocks ability '' call for armor ''
[ Each level increases energy by 15 and energy regeneration by 3% ]

-'' Call for reinforcements ''
[ Energy cost: 50 ; cooldown: 10 minutes ; cast-time: 10 seconds ]
Calls in reinforcements that grant every fallen player a mini to use, by default you can only get riflemans, but with level 2 ''logistics and support'' you get medics, automatic riflemans, javelin gunners and engineers.
Platoon Leader gets a mini to use himself.
( I would personally make it so that, if there's not enough dead players, the ability randomly delivers a certain amout of minis, for example 5 minis given randomly )

-'' Call for armor ''
[energy cost: 50 ; cooldown: 10 minutes ; cast-time: 10 seconds; duration: 3 minutes ]
Calls in a bradley from combat 7 company for the Platoon Leader to lead, however the bradley can only stay for a limited amount of time before having to return to his company.
Bradley enters from the closest map-entrance to the PL ( north, west, south, east ... ) and turns back to AI and exits the map once timer's expired.

This last 2 particularly are probably gonna be a pain to do if you decide to implement them, but it would surely be unique and fun to use!
Edit: tweaked some stats and some grammar.

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Re: Platoon leader rework and suggestions

Postby Sylvester » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:50 pm

Yo, I'll give my 2 cents about your suggestions.

1. I don't think PL should have sitrep, because he is a leader, not a nanny as the medic is :) In a real zombie apocalypse, this guy would have other things to care about rather than "oh no, I have to put myself at risk to save this guy who fucked up"
2. I totally agree that this costs way too much, and gives very little healing. Cooldown 30-45 instead of 15, remove minor ailments and seems good to me
3. +1 . LE is the bread and butter of what a Platoon Leader would accomplish in real life, aka: "Focus down that ugly fucker!"
4. While I don't know the numbers, I feel like he should indeed show the area to the allies too. Since he is experienced in teamwork, IMO he should be able to say into his radio to the whole team "There's nothing there worth our while" or "One of you, go and fetch that item for us"
5. +1
6. I disagree. He has others to throw nades and flares for him. As he is supposed to be a high rank in the MOS tree, and with a proper knowledge, he should be able to use CFF. So roleplay wise, it fits him. Gameplay wise, it also is useful for taking out dem sneaky Morbus. A nice thing to have when needed. And very nice when there's no FSS
7. +1. I imagine a Platoon Leader yelling to his platoon to "MOVE YOUR GODDAMN ASSES BEFORE I PUT A BULLET IN THEM, YOU LAZY MULES". So.. yeah. :hehe: :hehe: Also, a lower cd than 90 would be very good too. Something like 60.
8. I agree that this grenade doesn't quite fit our guy. Although, taking his reliable AOE ability would suck. And with the buff our one and only god Znimu would give him, he would be a bit overpowered. I suggest though that he should have a normal grenade (in the Z tree, or even as a new skill tree), to deal with those stacked zombies when no one else is around to do it for him.
Now, about Logistics and Support... I really like these ideas. Props to you if you thought about 'em ;-)
They should although be something along the lines of..
Call for Reinforcements: get 3 minis for 3 RANDOM guys (shouldn't be possible for a single person to get 2 or even 3 MOS at once though. To not make things awkward :D) Energy: 150 ; Cooldown: 15 minutes (so by the end of chapter 2, Thalim won't be full of minis on lower difficulties. And also Valor.. :D ) ; Might aswell just remove the cast-time, or make it 2-5 seconds, so it is viable on Survival too.
The tank would absolutely rock. Properly used, it would be able to deal more damage than AH hunters on FSS. Which is a really good ultimate ability. Although, it should be unlockable by upgrading a combination of 2 skill trees, because it doesn't seem right to me for him to be able to get a tank at level 3.. :P Also, would look something like... Energy cost: 170 ; Cast-time: none ; Cooldown: 5-7 minutes (starts after the tank goes into AI mode.) ; Duration: 2 minutes I think is fair for him to come and do its job. As far as I know, UAR is on Normal speed, so yea.. 2 minutes seem good 'nuff.

That was a good read. Noice suggestions for our forgotten class :]

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Re: Platoon leader rework and suggestions

Postby Merak65 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:12 pm

Feedback recieved, and I am happy to see that you mostly agree with me (and yes, ideas were mine, else i would tell who had em).

For the bradley, my concern with 2 minutes last is that a moving PL would not even get the tank to him that the thing expires, so maybe we make it '' 2 minutes once he got to you '' and he gets to you in AI mode.
For the level, I do agree that a tank level 3 could become somewhat of an awkardness, however I don't really know on what we could place the combo-to-unlock upgrade ... maybe on leadership 2 ? Afterall, he needs some carisma to get a tank to join!

For the call for reinforcements, I gave the fact that he gives minis to random players but only 1 for player by given, apparently it wasn't that obvious :triste1:
Anyway, I would stick to it giving 5 minis, 1 of wich granted to the PL, and for the cooldown, maybe 10 minutes is infact a bit too few, so 15 minutes fine, however I would not increase the energy cost, remeber we are trying to make the thing fun to use, not to morph it into a cooldown and energy gathering simulator

You suggested to remove cast-times on the last abilities.
Cast time is meant to emulate the fact that he needs to get on the radio to get the things to come, personally I wouldn't really mind it being gone but it would be cool to see him say '' We need armor support '' or '' We need more men over here '' when he uses the abilities

As for the CFF, i see what you mean ... but i still think that giving him the abilities that i suggested would increase the PL's '' lead and support '' role, this particular topic needs a bit more time in a later-stage of the development ( if Znimu decides to implement it ), as for now, we should keep it '' Either CFF stays or he gets support CFF ''.

As for the '' sitrep '', cmon man, wich platoon leader doesn't ask his man to sitrep at the times !?
Jokes aside, I would personally just add it to help the platoon leader get use out of his field aid, but it's nothing major by any means.

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Re: Platoon leader rework and suggestions

Postby Znimu » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:44 pm

I will focus now on the Platoon Leader :) (but as said below, I will rework the Medic SITREP first :cote: )
I guess that you have not seen this topic in Feedback : viewtopic.php?f=8&t=87

So maybe you can react again now, I will summarize and give my opinion about your ideas or integrate them.

The PL would get a new tree Officer Equipment, and Leadership would be reworked, and we would get something like that :


LEADERSHIP (provides the actual PL aura with each level) :
- lvl 1 : Link all FT together (so anybody in any FT will have vision of other heros as if everybody would be in the same FT).
- lvl 2 : Retreat (increases move speed for a duration, move speed buff removed if the soldier doesn't move for 1 s)
- lvl 3 : Redeploy (ask each hero if he wants to redeploy, then the Outlaw Phantom will load every soldiers who accepted and unload them close to the PL - minis/LNs are redeployed too)
- lvl 4 : Concentrate fire (as the actual)

OFFICER EQUIPMENT (each level provides +5 health and +10 energy) :
- lvl 1 : Binocculars
- lvl 2 : Field aid + improved Bino so other players benefit of it
- lvl 3 : Laser designator
- lvl 4 : CFF + improved Laser Designator (range 30, 2 charges)

About the Plasma Grenade, I may put an armor debuff to undeads inside its area of effect (so in addition to the little slow + damage). I am quite lazy to provide a bonus in mechanical attribute as suggested because it leads to a consequent work regarding the benefit, but if someone has argments, it can still be studied.

Instead of the Medic SITREP, the PL could have something just indicating heros above 30% health (not accurately the ailments, just a notification if a hero goes under 30% health). It makes me think to rework the medic SITREP before to rework the Platoon Leader...

Field aid energy cost : 60 ; CD increased to 50

Call a tank reinforcement : I like the idea, it would be epic. It could be unlocked for Leadership 4 + Collective 4.

I don't want a soldier reinforcement though, this is the particularity of the Sfaat.

(edited to ease the rework job).

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Re: Platoon leader rework and suggestions

Postby Merak65 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:36 pm

Well, I had missed the PL rework discussion so I made mine, but I see that you had already in mind many things that I suggested ( shared binos - movement speed - improved laser designator - better field aid )

I absolutley love your idea of linked vision and your idea of the phantom is very interesting, but I fear will also be quite jittery to make ( good luck ! :P )

For the CFF:
As I said I don't like that the PL has it, it's just that I would really love a class that has support AOE and not deadly AOE only, so that you ensure the team that who takes the PL has in his mind the mentality of supporting the team in every way possible, not going for kills.

For the plasma grenade:
I highly suggest you to not put 5 skill trees, thing will just end up being used on level 1 only if you decide to go for the tank that requires 4-4 on 2 other trees, and even if you don't I sitll think people would want the 4-4 on support anyway.
Maybe you can stick this thing as the M.O.S. specific ability and just make it something like the current level 2 plasma grenade with longer cooldown.
But then again, I made my point that I don't really like having AOE damages on the PL.

For the mechanical skills:
I frankly can't find where I suggested a mechanical skills rework on the PL ...
But if you are referring to the bottom line of the suggested '' logistics and support '' skill tree then all I can say is that I suggested it to make going for that skill tree give a sligth overall energy buff for a class that activley uses his abilities to support the team.

For the reiforcements:
I know SFAAT is more '' spawn troops '' related, I suggested that it makes a reiforcements wave come primarly to give the PL a hand on half-dead team situations where he can no longer support the others ( for they are dead ).

Overall I am happy to see I wasn't the only one feeling like PL needed some loving and that the general ideas for the class rework are similar, however I invite you to think about the grenade and the CFF in particular.

If you change your mind or wanna share some more toughts you know I always love to get feedback.

And as always, good luck with the development Znimu :super:

EDIT: almost forgot to suggest the name you asked for, what about '' Team comms '' or '' Squad comuncation '' ?

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Re: Platoon leader rework and suggestions

Postby Sui » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:47 am

We post here or move to the other thread? Anyways let´s bring some ideas.

The rework of the 2 skills trees sounds good and very interesting to play.

I think the same of Merak, the PL don´t need a deadly aoe like CFF, maybe modify it in a way that makes it´s more supportive reducing damage/delay and giving him a stun or def debuff. Or change it for a new skill like this example.
Thunderstrike: The PL calls for a orbital shoot from the satellite "put a name there" to bombard the target area after a X seconds delay paralizing or stuning the units.

Plasma Grenade
I like the idea of making it more Team played adding something that helps others to deals more damage. I have in mind another idea but i don´t know if it can build the basis are these: debuff that does fixed bonus damage when recieve damage from other sources.

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Re: Platoon leader rework and suggestions

Postby Merak65 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:28 am

I didn't really understand what you meant with the debuff that increases fixed damage, could you explain?

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Re: Platoon leader rework and suggestions

Postby Sui » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:54 am

I made a bad explain, sorry.

When a unit have this debuff everytime this unit recieves damage this debuff deals amount of fixed damage to the unit, example:

The debuff deals 10 damage.
The unit recives a rocket that make 1000 damage the unit recieves 1000 damage + 10 from the debuff.
The unit recives 100 bullets making 1000 damage the unit recieves 1000 damage + 1000 from the debuff.

I hope this makes more clear.

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Re: Platoon leader rework and suggestions

Postby Merak65 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:22 pm

It's interesting, but I fear it might become a bit overpowered if more than 3 people are shooting the debuffed thing, I mean, just think about how many bullets do ARs fire, add 10 damage for each one of them ...

Also, we already have the Laser designator that deals a significant debuff to the enemy and we already have the focus fire that greatly buffs allies, I think that it's already enough.

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Re: Platoon leader rework and suggestions

Postby Znimu » Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:17 pm

"Collective" renammed in "Officer Equipment".

Some veteran players are really attached to the CFF with the PL, just in case there is no FSS. So I keep it.

For the Plasma grenade, I don't know yet. I may change it after the PL rework, it is shared with the ghost, who could benefit of an update of the Plasma grenade too, as I think that almost nobody privilegiates the plasma grenade on Ghost or PL. I may add an armor debuff.

(note that I have edited my post above just to ease my work without to have to copy paste it, I usually never edit past posts).

I don't know yet for the tank call. It could be provided by the PL class SI. For now, I'd like to release the new PL, get some feedbacks then decide what to do :)

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