Class based experience rewards ideas

New ideas or improvements to share.
Merak65
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:52 pm

Class based experience rewards ideas

Postby Merak65 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:29 am

Class-specific exp rewards
I think this feature has been under-used for too long, it's time to put an end to it!

One thing I wanna trow out as soon as possible, in this suggestion the experience bonuses are awarded by playing the class like it is supposed to be palyed, however due to their different roles, it might end up that some classes get more experience then others or they get it more easily.

Another thing, medics and engineers already got their class-specific XP bonuses, so I won't be touching those.

-Rifleman
Riflemans, due to their versatile nature, can have multiple roles in a squad (simple DPS, grenadier, field support ), this means that his XP reward should be equally versatile, that could also make the class a more appealing for farming players.

Here's my idea:
[ + 5 XP each 100 zombies killed ]

Simply versatile, it doesn't matter how ( rifle or grenades ) or which ( heavy or light ) zombies you kill, it just matters that, as a rifleman, you do your job of killing undeads.

-Automatic rifleman
Automatic riflemans are also a remarcably versatile class, boosting out considerable DPS aganist all kinds of undeads, so I think that the AR should get a versatile XP bonus:

Here's my idea:
[ + 5 XP each 125 zombies killed ]

Due to the AR's higher DPS compared to the rifleman, I think it should have higher amounts of kills required to get his bonus, however this kind of bonus is still versatile since it doesn't require to kill particular undeads or in a particular way.

-Flamethrower

Flame troopers ( as I call them ) are a class that should primarly be dedit to eliminating large groups of small undeads and kiting for the team the T1 hostiles.

The first one shouldn't be a problem, the second one however might be arguable:
[ + 5 XP each 125 light-undeads ( they need to be tagged as light to be counted ) ]
[ + 5 XP each 500 hp of damage absorbed trough the shield ]


The first one would reward the flametrooper that controls the light-undeads, the second one would reward the flametrooper that kites and absorbs damage from the tier 1 hostiles.

-Security Force Assistance Advisory Team ( oh, so that's what SFAAT stands for ! )

Let's face it, this class is meant to defend Thalim and to make sure civvies survive, thus his bonus should be related to his efficency in defending Thalim.
This is however a double-edge sword, since in survival mode you don't evac civillians ( PMC not counted due to the fact he can just moe down PMCs for exp bonus without ever dying ).

Here's my tought:
[ Recieves a 1 XP bonus for each civillian that has been evacuated ]
[ + 5 XP bonus each time '' survival bonus '' is achieved in survival mode ]


I think that would nail it quite well, giving a bonus both for the SFAAT that does his job in normal-modes and the SFAAT that tears trough enemies in survival.

-Javelin gunner
Javelin gunners are meant to use rockets to take out the undeads, however they both have a role as anti-light units ( HE rocket ) and anti-massive units ( AT rocket ), so this is kinda tricky to balance out.

Here's what I would do:
[ + 5 xp each 125 light-undeads killed ]
[ + 10 xp each 5 massive-undeads killed ]


The bonus aganist the tier 1 hostiles might not seem like a lot, but we need to keep in mind a javelin gunner rarely only hunts tier 1 hostiles, so I'd say that it could still work.

-Scout
I almost forgot about this class ... That gives you an idea of how bad I find it to be.
Balance aside, this class is meant to scout opponents, find supplies and god knows what else since nobody uses it.

Here's wha I was thinking about:
[ + 10 xp each 5 targets marked with the laser designator ]
[ + 5 xp each 10 minutes a motion-spotter is running ]


Bonuses awarded for the scout that actually '' scouts '' the enemy, I couldn't come up with a better idea for a class that I bearly have ever touched.

-Squad Designated Marksman ( SDM )
SDMs primary role is to take down tier 1 opponents, thus I think their XP bonus should be in this regard.

Here's what I would do:
[ 4 XP bonus each tier 1 hostile killed ]

It might not seem like a lot, but keep in mind that even hunters count as tier 1 hostiles, and a SDM can neutralize 4 of them in less than 15 seconds.

-Platoon Leader
How do you grant a aura buffer a XP bonus ? By rembering the class also has active abilities !

Here's what I would do:
[ 5 XP bonus each 200 hp healed with his first-aid ability ]
[ 5 XP bonus each 5 targets marked with his laser-designator ]
[ 1 XP bonus each 10 times binoculars are used ]


I recognice that the 3rd bonus might get a bit exploited, but a PL that spots everywhere randomly is still better than a PL that doesn't spot, thus he needs some kind of XP bonus in my mind, same goes for the laser-marker.

-Cyborg
This is a class I am not custom to ... Actually I don't think I have ever played it, so granting an XP bonus for this class is gonna be rather tricky for me.

You know what ? Instead of rushing out a suggestion that might be wrong, Il'l leave this one blank instead, if there's a cyborg player that could suggest something go ahed and do it down below.

-Prototype
The prototype, shield of the team and savior of energy-hungry classes, let's give him some rewards for being the pounchsack that he is.

Here's what I would do:
[ + 10 XP each 1000 HP of damage taken under effect of the shield ]
[ +5 XP each 1000 Energy Points transferred to another hero ]


Simple and effective, this would primarly rewards the team-playing proto.

-Grenadier
The class that seems to have been forgotten outside of PMC and OB modes ... Quite a shame, I find it really fun to play ( and teamkill cause I'm bad with explosives ... ) with.
Grenadier's main focus should be to take out hordes of zombies before they get too close, so his primary reward should be for taking out swarmers.

Here's what I would grant him:
[ + 5 XP each 200 light-zombies killed ]
[ + 5 XP each 300 zombies killed ]


In this way the grenadier would be awarded more frequently for taking out swarmer-kinds of zombies, but would still get some compensation for killing big-amounts of zombies in general.

Notice: if you get 300 kills and 200 of em are light zombies, then you get both bonuses, or at least I think it should be this way.

-Helicopter
This class has proved to be among the best '' objective-maker '' class, so I think his XP bonuses should primarly be focused around it playing the objective and doing missions.

Here's what I would give him:
[ + 2 XP for each objective completed, progressive complections ( each sentry, each BMDD, each civillian saved ) are not counted, only final objective grants a bonus ]

Simple reward for the pilot that helps doing objectives.

-Combat Walker
This class is primarly focused around killing as many enemies as possible, no matter what they are, wich means that his XP bonus should be rewarded for how many kills he gets.

Here's what I was thinking about:
[ + 5 XP each 350 zombies killed ]
[ + 5 XP each 3 Tier-1 hostiles killed ]


I know, it's not exactly the most '' original '' of the ideas, but it should be rather simple to do and it should be quite effective.

-Fire Support Specialist
This class is somewhat more versatile than people would imagine, providing smoke-screens, providing flare-illumination, using his powerfull artillery to take out bosses and using barrages to take out lots of smaller treats.

Since it is a ( surprisingly ) versatile class, I think it should get rewarded for multiple actions:
[ + 2 XP each 10 flares called ]
[ + 2 XP each 10 orbital-recon used ]
[ + 5 XP each 200 undeads killed ]
[ + 5 XP each 3 Tier-1 hostiles killed ]


As with the binoculars for the Platoon Leader, this one is quite exploitable too, as you can start going ham on flares and recons to grind more XP as possible, however as I stated before, id much rather have too much vision on the map than not having any.

I know there's a lot of bugs to smash right now, but I wanted to put this idea out anyway in the hope that in a better future where a patch doesn't break half of the game there will be time to implement such a feature.
As always, let me hear what you think about it and good luck with the developement Znimu and Yehara !

anubis
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:23 am

Re: Class based experience rewards ideas

Postby anubis » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:38 am

While the effort for making things balanced can be clearly seen, I have some doubts about this due to the following reasons:

* Experience inflation. We already have an experience inflation in my opinion. A few carried Hard games give a lot of dangerous and important tools to new players' hands, without them having the actual experience to use them. There was an old discussion about Cavalry Scout and his CFF skill for example. It is possible to have access to the Cavalry Scout in 3 games - while the player is still learning how to unjam his/her weapon. (I could not find the original discussion on the forums, so it probably took place at Discord.)

* Enforcement of a particular strategy. The game converged around the current strategy over the years. We have a strong idea of what "should" be done, but there are no guarantees that this is the optimal strategy out of all possible strategies. Giving bonus points for playing according to the current strategy might reduce the incentive for exploration.

* Farmers. The people desperately trying to amass as much experience as they can without any regard for teamplay might put themselves in situations that will ultimately harm the team. I can see suicidal Flamethrowers repeatedly dying, putting Medics (and ultimately other team members) in danger; or fighting for kiting and getting somebody killed in the process. Players trying to keep their skills on cooldown whether the usage is necessary or not has an important cost.

Merak65
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:52 pm

Re: Class based experience rewards ideas

Postby Merak65 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:45 am

Just an heads-up for those that didn't follow the discord discussion about this topic:

-We have agreed that trough a better reward system ( that rewards them for playing the class how they should do ) could easily fix the problem of new players starting to play the class only one way, this is the principle behind my suggestion, however we have agreed that there might be a couple tweaks here and there to do.

-We have agreed that not giving any kind of info to a starter player about these rewards won't penalize any kind of class-exploration, starters will have to learn by themselves what actions are, in the current meta, good to do, if the meta changes or someone finds a new and effective way to play a class, then a reward for playing such a game might be added in the future.

-We have agreed that if the rewards are for playing the class like it's supposed to be played, farmers won't be a problem, they would actually have to play their class how it's supposed to be played to get rewarded, thus help win the game.

-We didn't touch that much experience-inflation topic, however I strongly belive it wouldn't be a problem, since the most rewarding games require an organized team of experienced players that usually don't need experience, while the less rewarding pub games are usually half-mission failed, and in that case a bit of an XP boost for who's doing the right thing could only do some good.

Nazrudin
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 12:19 pm

Re: Class based experience rewards ideas

Postby Nazrudin » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:52 pm

I'm not a fan of this suggestion, due to the fact that it will only add to the notion that "you're doing it wrong" and would take away the exploration aspect. One could argue you can still explore but you would still have a better strategy cut out for you due to these mechanics.

All in all I don't think this is the worst idea but I believe there is a better solution but I don't know what it is.

Merak65
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:52 pm

Re: Class based experience rewards ideas

Postby Merak65 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:33 pm

For this argument, I might say that then not even the medic and the engineer should get rewarded, yet they do.
And if your argument is that '' they are supposed to be played that way '', then you go aganist yourself.
Thus instead of removing the XP reward for these classes, I would much rather have an XP reward for the other ones.

As I have already stated, many of your arguments might get overcome just by simply making a good set of action rewards, one that rewards both the metodical player that always does what is known to be '' the right way '' and the more creative players that are always trying new stuff.

Rember that the number of abilities a class has ( basically the potencial amount of XP-reward-triggers ) is limited but not low, thus even doe it would require a bigger amount of work, there are plenty more ways to reward a player for using his class.

However, we all agree that the medic should focus on healing and the engineer should fix whatever he can fix ( let's not overcomplicate things, if walker is hurt bad engineer should help him, I know he can go rockets too ) ...
So why not add a '' general-line '' reward for what we currently know to be '' the right way '' but leave ourselves open to adding in new XP rewards if new stategies for certain classes rise ?

Think about every class-based game, I always see rewards for playing the class like it was intended, this has never been a deterrant for me to try out new strategies, I don't see why it would become one in UAR.


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