Incoming update

General announcements about UAR.
anubis
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:23 am

Re: Incoming update

Postby anubis » Fri May 20, 2016 7:36 pm

It's great. I think maybe it should popup after hovering for 2-3 seconds instead of immediately, if that is possible at all of course.

Znimu
Posts: 1197
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: Incoming update

Postby Znimu » Fri May 20, 2016 8:11 pm

Yes good idea, I was thinking this window could be annoying if the player wants only to ping.

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Billyum
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:15 am

Re: Incoming update

Postby Billyum » Sat May 21, 2016 3:00 am

Sorry, I had to wrap up my last post sooner than I expected so I was a little vague at the end.

"Actually I'd like to nerf AA, and both rounds if they get a specific new slot (it would be a slot so if you put an AP or a DU round in it, it uses a charge for each bullet shot, instead of regular ammo maybe)."
The AA has always been that "Bread and Butter" dps item. It has a fairly common spawn rate, Gives some nice stats, And anyone can use one [Though clearly some better than others]. I could understand say a -5% to its damage boost, But I feel that the only thing making it "too powerful" at the moment is the fact that it doesn't take up inventory space when equipped.

The idea for AP and DU rounds having charges that are used up is neat and more realistic, But I feel it would be one of those changes that is "too realistic" and gameplay would suffer as a result. SC2 NOTD and The Rising Dead both have ammo mods and in both games they work basically the same as UA3, Only in SC2 NOTD the ammo mods stack. If it is based on number of bullets fired then I think it would be quite weak for the AR and Cyborg though very powerful for the SDM, Though I imagine you would be able to find a way around that. Still I don't see limited use AP and DU rounds being more practical/fun to use gameplay wise than the current system.

For the "Free slots" one thing that I was thinking of is to only have one free inventory slot, In this "Weapon Attachment" slot you could put an AA, Scope/Rec Supp/Mag Stab, or Flashlight. I would include AP rounds but I don't think that DU rounds should be allowed in this slot. One downside to this is that there may be less people using scopes or recoil suppressors late game if they can't have them purely for free.

"But what will happen if I add helms, visors, and other stuff?"
I would need to know more specifics about how they would work. Perhaps if they are strong they could take up a spot just like any other item, If they are weak they could probably have their own free spot.

"I am not sure if the "!" button is usefull, always better to use a ' -message-. So I should remove it."
I don't use it very much, But I know that SlightlyOff likes to use it to help people find items by standing next to the item with the "!" over his head. Do you need to make space for new buttons?

"I have changed the SI icon, and hope that the new players will notice it as it is the only yellow icon, machiavelico I know"
Maybe you could have the button flash green for new players until they click on it? For their first game or two it wouldn't help because they wouldn't have any SIs yet, But at least they would know the function is there.

"So it would make squad info and self info useless."
I use both of those many times a game. Probably about 10 times a game for Self Info so that I can quickly keep track of how many times I've been hit, Exp gained, Or how many heals/revives I've gotten. I use the squad info button about 5 times a game to find out which people need ammo the most when I have extra ammo to spare.

Znimu
Posts: 1197
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: Incoming update

Postby Znimu » Sat May 21, 2016 9:02 am

Billyum wrote:Sorry, I had to wrap up my last post sooner than I expected so I was a little vague at the end.

"Actually I'd like to nerf AA, and both rounds if they get a specific new slot (it would be a slot so if you put an AP or a DU round in it, it uses a charge for each bullet shot, instead of regular ammo maybe)."
The AA has always been that "Bread and Butter" dps item. It has a fairly common spawn rate, Gives some nice stats, And anyone can use one [Though clearly some better than others]. I could understand say a -5% to its damage boost, But I feel that the only thing making it "too powerful" at the moment is the fact that it doesn't take up inventory space when equipped.

The idea for AP and DU rounds having charges that are used up is neat and more realistic, But I feel it would be one of those changes that is "too realistic" and gameplay would suffer as a result. SC2 NOTD and The Rising Dead both have ammo mods and in both games they work basically the same as UA3, Only in SC2 NOTD the ammo mods stack. If it is based on number of bullets fired then I think it would be quite weak for the AR and Cyborg though very powerful for the SDM, Though I imagine you would be able to find a way around that. Still I don't see limited use AP and DU rounds being more practical/fun to use gameplay wise than the current system.

Yes it would add the management of these rounds, this rounds inventory slot could include a kind of checkbox to use them or not. These rounds are something which has always disappointed me, even in UA2. But it is only realistic side indeed. I can imagine systems to add fire to the bullets, gun side, but a passive kind of rounds, without any charges or energy used, it is very weird in my opinion.

Maybe it just crosses my limitations about what I can accept as poorly designed in realism to the benefit of the gameplay. I could change the name so it would be more understandable but the rounds are such old items in UA, it would be weird too.

Billyum wrote:For the "Free slots" one thing that I was thinking of is to only have one free inventory slot, In this "Weapon Attachment" slot you could put an AA, Scope/Rec Supp/Mag Stab, or Flashlight. I would include AP rounds but I don't think that DU rounds should be allowed in this slot. One downside to this is that there may be less people using scopes or recoil suppressors late game if they can't have them purely for free.

Why not DU rounds ?
I think I will let as it is in the actual version, finish the UI, then we can think about all that quietly.

Billyum wrote:"But what will happen if I add helms, visors, and other stuff?"
I would need to know more specifics about how they would work. Perhaps if they are strong they could take up a spot just like any other item, If they are weak they could probably have their own free spot.

Hmm I don't know exactly, anyways I will finish this 2.0 then finish the prototype, then I'd like to study the advanced medic. So I can't say what the new items will be. But as I am working on the UI, I thought it was the right time to think about it. Maybe not.

Billyum wrote:"I am not sure if the "!" button is usefull, always better to use a ' -message-. So I should remove it."
I don't use it very much, But I know that SlightlyOff likes to use it to help people find items by standing next to the item with the "!" over his head. Do you need to make space for new buttons?

He may be the only person to use it, and he could use " ' gun here", the chat system instead. It is a little more long to use, but anyways only using the ! won't make people understand so I guess he writes things in chat + !.
Maybe he could just write things in the chat.

Billyum wrote:"I have changed the SI icon, and hope that the new players will notice it as it is the only yellow icon, machiavelico I know"
Maybe you could have the button flash green for new players until they click on it? For their first game or two it wouldn't help because they wouldn't have any SIs yet, But at least they would know the function is there.

Yes, it may be part of the tutorial I started months ago :gene:
I may work again on it once the Prototype is done.
I could flash the button if the player has less than 5k xp, and at least one SI available.
I have to re-think the tutorial actually, maybe to include it automatically for people having less than a amount of xp.

Billyum wrote:"So it would make squad info and self info useless."
I use both of those many times a game. Probably about 10 times a game for Self Info so that I can quickly keep track of how many times I've been hit, Exp gained, Or how many heals/revives I've gotten. I use the squad info button about 5 times a game to find out which people need ammo the most when I have extra ammo to spare.

This new window would allow to see all that, for a single soldier, so you could check new players with it, or yourself. The plan is to replace these 2 buttons.
I think you use them because there is nothing else, even if they are hardly readable (maybe you are used to it), because it is not anywhere else.
This new window would be much more easily readable.

Kami no Varou
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:22 pm

Re: Incoming update

Postby Kami no Varou » Sat May 21, 2016 10:52 am

Well, I use the ! when I need heal, next to medic. Those things can be quite urgent. BTW, can you shotcut '-message' with '-m' or is it used for something ? Cause for someone that is not a fast typer (like me :/ ) this simple change can mean a lot.
I actualy agree with the equipping thing that doesn't use slot - sounds logic and it makes scope and recoil much more used. I think you would just need to make those less common so you don't just see a whole squad with AA, and it would make it more important to give the proper equippement to the best user (that kinda pisses me off when I see Cavalry-Medic-PL equip a AA while our dps classes don't have one).
I also think a charge system on ammo would be annoying like hell, although I understand your concern. I think you should just change the item name so it modifies te weapon instead of the ammo - a ammo system with charge would more look like a MoS specific ability (probably for some kind of sniper or machine-gunner where he load bullets manually).

Znimu
Posts: 1197
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: Incoming update

Postby Znimu » Sat May 21, 2016 11:41 am

Glad you join the discussion, more opinions are very welcome on this topic.

You miss-understood about the ' -message-, this system is already in game, if you write ' hey, it will display your name : hey above your hero :)
So personnaly i sometimes write ' heal please, so the medic sees me very quickly.
I could remove the space needed after the ' here too.

Kami no Varou
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:22 pm

Re: Incoming update

Postby Kami no Varou » Sat May 21, 2016 12:57 pm

... I kinda feel dumb...
... that might explain things...
... well, alright

Znimu
Posts: 1197
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: Incoming update

Postby Znimu » Sat May 21, 2016 1:56 pm

In addition, and replacements of the ! too, I plan to add a quick sentences system soon.
It would allow to display above the hero, sentences like "Follow me", "Secure the perimeter", "Save yourself", "I need some backup". If you have other ideas of sentences like these, just tell.
So I would define a key which opens a menu, then click on the sentence wanted or use an other key, and the sentence is displayed above the hero + probably a voice from SC2 if I find any which can suit.
No idea when I will do that.

anubis
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:23 am

Re: Incoming update

Postby anubis » Sat May 21, 2016 5:16 pm

About realism:

We have an entire class dedicated to training for a single rocket launcher, but other classes can shoot a handful of rockets just fine. (Cluster rockets)

Flamethrower can unload his magazines, which is likely flamer fuel, and share it with his friends, which magically gets converted to bullets.

Hell, we even have a ultra high-tech thing called Graviton Charge in the hands of a simple soldier, who throws it around like there is no tomorrow. I am no physicist, but I think you would need _insane_ amounts of energy for something like that to work.

It is an arbitrary line to draw at this point. I am not sure if more micromanagement should be added in the name of realism. Maybe we can change the name to "Electromagnetic round accelerator" or something like that, if the consensus is to change?

DragonS
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Incoming update

Postby DragonS » Sat May 21, 2016 9:43 pm

small suggestion:

Joueur local

about realism:
brain injure/fracture/poision/etc autoheal time... in real, its about 7-400++ days actually..
+you wont use abilities and shoot actually with brain injure, or just lose move speed with leg fracture cuz its pain when you doing most things without moving... and etc-etc-etc... so easy answer: "its a game" (c)

and from a simple fall can break something or damage to the nervous system (physically), and that's all
hospital provided .. or exoskeleton
..with spcs, 35 mags, unlimited mrl uses cuz jav class, and 12x5 explosive charges in bakpack.. how it would be looks in real life?.. i wanna see it.. with sprint and 1hp!
dead account to prevent non-game discussions with znimu


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