New class : the Prototype

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Znimu
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Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Znimu » Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:52 am

I may renamme Strength by Titanium Skeleton actually.

Orel
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Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:03 pm

Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Orel » Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:14 am

Some ideas:

Cybernetics 1:
+jam immune passive

Active DPS skill:
Plasma bullets - Use energy to rapidly heat up bullets fired. Increase damage and add burn effect to targets (not stacks)
lvl 1 - 50% more damage per bullet, 60 burn per sec, 2 sec duration
lvl 2 - 100% more damage per bullet, 60 burn per sec, 3 sec duration
lvl 3 - 150% more damage per bullet, 80 burn per sec, 3 sec duration
lvl 4 - 200% more damage per bullet, 80 burn per sec, 4 sec duration

Energy needed for activation and for each bullet fired. Duration same as rapid fire

If this is too Weak/OP - tweak the numbers :frime:

Znimu
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Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Znimu » Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:50 am

Titanium Skeleton :
Improves fitness by 12 per level.

1 - Rifle Butt
2 - Doubles jump distance and executes a rifle butt upon landing
3 - Improves armor by 3, rifle butt can target armored

Cybernetics :
Improves regeneration by 1 and move speed by 0,09 per level.

Level 1: Increases range by 4, Small increase in attack speed (10%).
Level 2: gives a 12.5% chance to deal a 2x critical hit, increases range by 1.
Level 3: Improves critical chance to 33% [crit stays at 2x], Unlocks charge.

Energetics :
Activates the energetic stance of the Prototype. Improves mechanical by 10 per level.

1 - Jam immunity (need a name)
2 - Smoke grenade
3 - X-ray (immune to smoke grenades)
+ Energy transfer: The Prototype can transfert his own energy to the suit of an other soldier.

Still thinking about the offensive skill.

Kami no Varou
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:22 pm

Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Kami no Varou » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:21 pm

As an offensive ability, you seemingly need an experimental weapon, something that look futuristic and maybe a bit unstable.
My suggestion is a kind of grenade that would affect every unit in his radius by dealing a small AoE damage, that would stack with himself.
Every unit affected would emit a shockwave dealing little damage in a given radius centered on themself (they take this damage too). Units hit by one of those shockwave also emit one. Each unit can only emit one shockwave ofc. Basically, it is very bad against lone enemies, but formidably strong against huge and condensed groups, and being able to actually spread to an unexpected extent.

Basically, it's a grenade (radius, throw) that mark every unit inside by a debuff lasting 3s that make them emit one shockwave dealing 200 damage to every unit and then being unable to contract again the debuff. The radius of shockwaves and cost of the spell would improve with each level - something akin 1.5/2/2.5/3 radius and 90/80/70/60 energy cost. With the radius being bigger, it becomes harder to predict how it will spread, and of course because of this spreading effect, it could be dangerous.

I'm not sure I was clear in my explanations, but what do you think about it ? Sounds adapted for an experimental weapon to me.
But I have no idea for the name ("Pulse Grenade" maybe ? I feel like it doesn't mean anything but why not).

(and btw, unless I'm mistaken, Mechanical increase energy by 15, so I'm not sure you want have a 10 Mechanical increase by Energetics level)

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Billyum
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Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Billyum » Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:56 am

I like how much progress has been made so far, You've done a nice job on this. However there are a few skills that I feel don't fit in certain skill trees and a few stats that look like they need reworked.

Cybernetics, Weapon:
The Health regen is much too high, at level 3 he passively regenerates 3 health per second as long as the stance is active. So in one minute you would regenerate 180 health! I would drop the regen rate down to 0.3 hp per level, this would still give you 54 hp in one minute at level 3.

00.9 movement speed per level is the same as Cyborg's Agility, I don't think that the Prototype should be as fast as the cyborg [Especially seeing as how he will also have the Cyborg's double jump]. 00.7 per level should give the prototype enough mobility without making him too fast.

Having the crit chance at 33% instead of 37.5% means that the overall dps would be less than a 25% chance of a 3x crit. Though I did mess up on the stats that I suggested, I got the Crit chance for level 2 wrong [Should be 25% chance for 2x crit]. The attack speed and range was too much as well, I should have said:
Level 1: +4 range
Level 2: 25% chance of 2x crit
Level 3: 37.5% of 2x crit, unlocks charge

I had also thought of a weapon that could add another level of Uniqueness to the prototype, A Smartgun [Inspired by the Aliens movies/games]. For stats I was thinking:
Range: 21
Attack Speed: 0.14 - 0.19 not quite sure, would need tests [No burst]
Number of attacks: 1
Damage: Same as Cyborg

Titanium Skeleton, TROL Protocol, Magnetic Shield:
One thing that I noticed is that it would take a lot of levels to get the skills you want, Level 6 for TROL Protocol and level 9 for Magnetic Shield. Perhaps TROL Protocol could replace the ability to rifle butt armored at level 3 Titanium Skeleton and the Magnetic Shield could be unlocked with Level 3 Titanium Skeleton + Energetics.

Energetics, Deflector Shield, Smoke Screen:
I thought of a name for the Energetics tree, I was thinking "Optimized Capacitors".

Like Varou said, each point of the mechanical stat increases Max energy by 15 and improves energy regen by 1% [I am not sure how the 1% faster regen works exactly, Some people think that it only effects base energy regen while others think it effects total energy regen]. I think dropping it down to 3 mechanical points per level would be the best way to do it.

I don't feel that a smoke grenade fits the Prototype very well, I like the idea of a smoke screen though. However, Even then I don't think that a smoke screen fits well into the theme of an energy based skill tree. One thing I was thinking of was changing the Deflector Shield tree into a "Improved Exoskeleton" tree, This tree would have Smoke Screen and Deflector Shield. Also, Because the prototype cannot use armor, maybe he could have a passive that gives him shield points and armor. For Example, Level 1 Improved Exoskeleton can give 30 shield points and 1 armor as well as unlock Smoke screen, Level 2 could unlock Deflector shield while levels 3 and 4 can improve them. As to how the smoke screen skill would work, Perhaps the standard version can place 3 smoke clouds around the Prototype and the improved version could place 4. Though they would need to overlap a little bit to make it look more like one big smoke cloud.

If Smoke screen is moved into the Deflector Shield tree then I have a replacement for the smoke grenade in the Energetics tree. A skill that regenerates energy much like how TROL Protocol regenerates health, It would work by draining some energy and shutting down some systems to activate powerful generators to restore energy. I was thinking that it could cost 50 energy and shut down his suit for 15 seconds, He could cancel at any time but his suit needs 2 seconds to restart. For the first 3 seconds the skill doesn't provide any energy, But then it gives 200 energy over 12 seconds. I wanted to create an ability that wouldn't replace the need for energy cells but would still give a lot of energy, Though now that I have it all typed out I'm not so sure about this idea anymore. I guess it's a good starting point though.

The jam preventing passive doesn't seem like it would be all that useful, Unless you didn't get Cybernetics and were using Energetics while shooting things. Maybe it would be better to have a passive that sped up reload and unjam time by 35%? This way it would be useful in more situations.

Plasma Bullets, Critical Targeting:
I do like the Plasma Bullets idea, Especially because in terms of stats it goes nicely with his high crit chance. The burn damage wouldn't do very much because it doesn't stack, But the % damage increase would be nice. There are a few weapons in Mass Effect that work this way, Namely the Geth Pulse Rifle and the Geth Plasma Shotgun, So it wouldn't be unrealistic for a weapon to fire metal that is super heated into plasma. The main issue might be if this skill fits the prototype or not.

I have been reworking the stats for Critical Targeting, And also trying to find a name for it that isn't a placeholder... So far I have came up with this:
Level 1: +7.5% Crit chance, +40% damage
Level 2: +15% Crit chance, +55% damage
Level 3: +20% Crit chance, +65% damage
Level 4: +22.5% Crit chance +75% damage
Probably still needs more work, I guess the only way to really make progress at this point is a lot of testing.

Znimu
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Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Znimu » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:04 am

Thanks for this Billyum, I have begun to study it, but can't really work right now.

Widy
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Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:17 pm

Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Widy » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:31 pm

Hello everyone,

Thanks for a great map! I have been playing this (NoTD) in WC3 tirelessly a long time ago. And just only recently installed Starcraft 2, where I got hooked again and don't play almost anything else than UAR.

---

How about a "skill shot" instead of a buff to the Prototype's auto-attacks for the offensive ability?

For example a Rail Gun, would go well with the Titanium Skeleton. Once the ability is activated it would shoot a high-velocity shell in the direction the Prototype is currently facing, passing through targets, dealing respectable damage to armored enemies, capable of friendly fire.

Could either have a short cool-down and be in line with grenade damage, or have a larger cool-down with damage resembling a missile. Unlike an MRL it would be instant but have less AoE and much shorter range.

I feel like an hard-to-unlock class could be more skill based than getting fancy ammo. Perhaps a minigun or (plasma)flamethrower working in a similar fashion.

Znimu
Posts: 1190
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Znimu » Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:27 pm

Working on the Prototype again.

Kami :
Could be interesting, but instead of a grenade it would be triggered around the Prototype itself. Hm I have reinvented the ulti of the Earthshaker of Dota now =/
Actually I prefer around the Prototype instead of a grenade, because of his X-ray ability. So the prototype would be immune.
Could be too a fifth tree. Thinking about it.

Billyum :
So I have changed the critical chances. Slowed the move speed bonus and decreased the life regeneration of Cybernetics.
I don't know for the rifle butt not targetting the armored, I think that his X-ray ability (not snared in smokes) will lead him to need it.
I feel quite lazy for the smart gun. It could be nice to give him a special weapon though, maybe later, I will try to remember about it.
Still thinking about a smoke screen instead of a smoke grenade. I like the name "Optimized Capacitors", much better than Energetics, but maybe a little long.

Widy :
It would look like the Monomolecular Wire of the SDM I think. It could be an ultimate ability according to the changes proposed by Billyum for the unlocks of the others skills, but I would prefer something different from the mono.

So right now :

Titanium Skeleton :
Improves fitness by 12 per level.

1 - Rifle Butt
2 - Doubles jump distance and executes a rifle butt upon landing
3 - Improves armor by 3, rifle butt can target armored

Cybernetics :
Improves regeneration by 0,3 and move speed by 0,07 per level.

Level 1: Increases range by 4, attack speed by 10%.
Level 2: gives a 25% chance to deal a 2x critical hit, increases range by 1.
Level 3: Improves critical chance to 37,5%, Unlocks charge.

Energetics :
Activates the energetic stance of the Prototype. Improves mechanical by 10 per level.

1 - Jam immunity (need a name)
2 - Smoke grenade
3 - X-ray (immune to smoke grenades)
+ Energy transfer: The Prototype can transfert his own energy to the suit of an other soldier.

I think that I will give a little area of vision during Darkness if the prototype has X-ray, but only to the Prototype. I need to do some tests.


Still to do :
- energy transfert
- magnetic shield
- critical targetting
- decide how to unlock what
- big jumps with Titanium Skeleton 2
- Rifle butt can target armored with TS 3

Kami no Varou
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:22 pm

Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Kami no Varou » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:45 am

Pulse grenade/thing > Oh yeah, didn't even thought of him (Earthshaker) ^^. Well, didn't played DotA on a while - and never ever played him.
I guess around him is fine, but the point was it being potentially dangerous to allies (sounds devil a bit said like that...) to emphasize the Prototype part, so I guess you would be immune to damage but not other allies ? Isn't that going to be difficult to create a AoE damage that don't damage Prototype specifically but damages anything else ?

X-Ray > I guess on normal clouds too, no ? Also, if as u said u use a classic smoke grenade, it's barely useful (PMC don't even ever use smokes (hey, that's an idea ! smoke using PMCs !)).

Magnetic Shield > To be honest, I doubt this idea. Not for the meaning of it - I understood you deploy a shield that is a huge strain on your suit - but just because almost no one ever tank zombie hits, spare for Flamethrower and the rare Stone Protocol Cyborg, and they both do it cause they already have their own ability to protect themself.
Remains the effectivity in PMC mode - which is nice, if you except the fact that you don't stack on PMC because of AoE, which then reduce its use. Now, the ability is nice - there are a lot of abilities in the game that are under-used because they fit very specific situations - but I feel like you might want to think about it a bit more. Can't really help tho - I'm just bitching on it without helping (feels nice sometime :diable:).

Critical Targeting > I feel like you could just unlock it on Cybernetics 3, I mean, it's use is to increase critical chance, isn't ? Then why would you increase it passively and then add an ability to increase it again ? I understand that you want to diferentiate from Cyborg crit x3, but I feel like you could solve both of these at same time.

Now, I feel like atm, Titanium Skeleton is not interesting - what it gives to you is achieved in a better way through Cyborg Strength, also Stonewall Protocol makes it an effective way to tank if that's what you want, while you don't really have what it takes to tank - loads of HP and 3 armor won't make it if u don't have something else to protect yourself. Once again, lots of MoS have under-used trees, so I might be pushing too much - I guess one could say you Titanium tree is like the Stealth tree : nice, but not of capital importance.

Great work overall, we now see a real new MoS emerging and it sounds promising. I guess you'll have to try and see how it goes anyway. What about unlock conditions ?

Znimu
Posts: 1190
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Znimu » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:53 am

Pulse grenade/thing > it is possible to prevent to apply effects on a particular type of unit.

X-ray > Yes on normal fog too, I did not think about that :)

Magnetic Shield > I will have to test, to try the possibilities and the possible synergy between the skills. There is the Deflector shield which should allow to tank a little, but actually it is the skill which I am not sure about, it may need to be rethought.
The Magnetic shield would allow to protect people if they are overwhelmed by several cursed, or several hunters, or charged by a scorp ; protect civilians or players from bullets pen / incendiary rounds when jumpers arrive very close to some soldiers. And it is only some examples. I have to decide if in case of a satchel the prototype would survive or not, if I should put a maximum amount of damage absorbed by the Magnetic shield iwhen the health of the Prototype reaches 1 (which desactivate the Magnetic shield). There is 2 solutions : the supplementary damage disappear with the Magnetic shield, or the damage are done to the people who should have received it, the prototype included. The second seems more complicated to do, but it should not be a sufficient reason to decide here.
For now, I first need to finish some skills, then to test / allow other players to test, to balance and maybe change some things (particularly when the different skills are unlocked).

Critical Targeting > Now that you say it, yes it is weird and maybe not opportun to stack several critical skills. Not sure if Billyum had thought about that.

Titanium Skeleton > Well if you or other people have some ideas to make the Prototype still more different from the Cyborg in this tree, I am interested.

What do you mean about the unlock ?


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