New class : the Prototype

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Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby anubis » Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:31 am

Why don't we simply replace Cyborg by the Prototype now? ::d The skill tree is almost identical with the Stealth tree replaced with smoke and energy transfer instead of camera and flare. That way, also only one "augmented human" remains.

You might want to call x-ray something else - x-rays are ionizing radiation that penetrate many kinds of substances. Unless you want to see people like this, you would use something else. Also, nobody would want a guy that spreads radioactivity next to them for 2 days. Maybe you can call it thermal vision, as apparently Firefighters use thermal vision to see through smoke.

If you have to switch between Energetics and Cybernetics, then jam immunity would be useless, I would not trade it for critical hits while firing.

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Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Znimu » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:09 pm

Or you can consider that the only things which remain the same are the stances, and actually they are not the same. Every skills differ. But you know it is a prototype, the UT army is working on it, they may update it. What about the Prototype v0.17 ? Hm nothing, it is classified.
Jokes appart, this is a very complicated class. The cyborg is too, and actually may need a rework. For my first new class, I have been very greedy. So I am doing my best, but I will have to test a lot just to get an interesting synergy and balance with the skills, and maybe then I could think about changes for the different stances.

About X-rays, nowadays the X-rays have already been a lot improved (they used to irradiate people, but now they are not dangerous anymore except if you make some radios every days or something), so it is not unimaginable to get soon X-rays which are so few intensive that they are not dangerous. Except that nobody care as the actual ones are good enough for their use. But in the case of the Prototype, he doesn't make radios, it is only a vision assistant, probably very less accurate so less nocive.

Jam immunity is a passive skill which doesn't require the stance to be activated. It had already been discussed, but this topic is huge, I am quite lost myself in it.

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Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Znimu » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:30 pm

After having studied again, I have finally given the Critical targetting to the Prototype.
So he will have additional critics chance / damage with this skill, in addition to the critics chance / damage of the Cybernetics stance.
I had to rework the whole critical strikes system. But it is not released yet. Maybe some bugs but I don't think so.

Still to do :
- energy transfert
- magnetic shield
- improved smoke (not sure if it will be an improved smoke immediatly or combined with a prerequisite).
- double jump with TS 2 : not decided yet, actually I think that Titanium Skeleton could provide a very bigger jump, almost like the Lift boots, with a long cooldown, so instead of the double jump, but nothing decided yet.
- rifle butt can target armored with TS 3.

Still not sure at all about the deflector shield. I'd like a way to reduce the damage the Prototype will receive with his magnetic shield. But the deflector shield seems useless in normal modes (except with the magnetic shield while OP in PMC).
So I may replace this deflector shield by an active offensive skill, and provide a new passive for the magnetic shield (unlocked with some stances levels combination).

Still not sure too for the name Energetics, I find Optimized capacitors quite long. No better idea though. Hm Titanium Skeleton is long too actually.

If I remove the deflector shield, the energy transfert may become useless. May need an other skill instead.

For those who forgot :
- deflector shield : reduces the damage the prototype receives, quite like the old immortal shield.
- magnetic shield : the prototype receives the damage of every hit on allies in the area of the shield, the allies receive no damage when hit.

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Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Znimu » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:13 pm

Energy transfert replaced by Emergency Battery (done).

Hm as nobody gives his opinion anymore, maybe it is a good time to give to the prototype the redeploy abitity I initially planned for the PL :cote:
No, I know that this Prototype is a sort of urban legend for UAR. I can understand that nobody believes in him anymore.

If nobody stops me, I plan then :
- an offensive skill instead of the deflector shield (sad fact, I had built it entirely), I still would like an offensive spell around the Prototype, not really enthusiast by the Earth Shaker ulti in Dota2, mainly because I would have to break my head to build it, or to build it with triggers and it may create a temporary lag. Maybe a sort of explosion around the Prototype which repulses zombies too, massive excepted.
- a very big jump with a consequent cooldown for Titanium Skeleton 2
- a passive for the magnetic shield, to reduce the damage received by the Prototype
- the improved smoke (maybe the smoke of the FSS, or a new smoke bigger than the usual smoke grenade, probably unlocked with the X-rays so for Energetics 3
- rifle butt can target armored with TS 3 (still to do)

Kami no Varou
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Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Kami no Varou » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:45 pm

For my part, you just have to scroll up the topic to get my opinion. I suggested an offensive ability, I suggested a change for the critical targeting, I already gave my opinion on the magnetic shield. So, I don't want to speak for others but for my parts my opinion/suggestions are given and argumented already, not to me to insist on them.

Do the fact that u give him the redeploy ability means that you give upon a possible future rework of the PL ?
I think it doesn't fit at all a Prototype. Doesn't make sense.

Did I miss something or did u forget to mention what was Emergency Battery ?

Overall, if u're really into finishing it, I suggest u post a summary of what is his kit now (it gets a bit confused) and start explaining his gameplay according to said kit - that'll help suggestions and maybe realise a couple of things by yourself. Not really much to say otherwise. Keep up the good work.

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Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Znimu » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:30 pm

No the redeployment is not for the Prototype, was just a joke =/
OK I will post a summary.

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Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Znimu » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:59 pm

So the 5 trees of the Prototype :

Titanium Skeleton :
Improves fitness by 12 per level.

1 - Rifle Butt
2 - Enhanced jump : independant from the regular jump, 8 range, can jump on cliffs but with long cooldown and 1s cast
3 - Improves armor by 3, rifle butt can target armored

Cybernetics :
Improves regeneration by 0,3 and move speed by 0,07 per level.

Level 1: Increases range by 4, Small increase in attack speed (10%).
Level 2: gives a 22% chance to deal a 2x critical hit, increases range by 1.
Level 3: Improves critical chance to 37% [crit stays at 2x], Unlocks charge.

Optimized Capacitors :
Activates the energetic stance of the Prototype. Improves mechanical by 3 per level.

1 - Jam immunity (passive always activated, even if Optimized Capacitors is not activated)
2 - Smoke grenade
3 - X-ray (immune to smoke grenades)
- Improved smoke grenade (bigger area of effect)
- Emergency Battery : With Optimized Capacitors 3 activated, the prototype will charge his emergency battery if his energy reaches the maximum of energy of his suit. Then he can use this battery anytime, even without Cybernetics activated, to get 100 energy (amount to balance).

Critical Targetting :
Level 1: +7.5% Crit chance, +40% damage
Level 2: +15% Crit chance, +55% damage
Level 3: +20% Crit chance, +65% damage
Level 4: +22.5% Crit chance +75% damage
It stacks with the cybernetics bonus.

Offensive Ability : not fully decided yet
Explosion around the Prototype (kind of explosion to be determined), which repulses every units close to the Prototype.
Each level improves the damage and the length of the repulsion.
Ideas of name / RP welcome.


Other abilities :

Magnetic Shield : unlocked for Cybernetics 3 + Optimized capacitors 3
The prototype deploys a huge shield around him. Every units in this shield won't take any damage, but the Prototype will receive the damage. The Prototype can't die from the damage received here, but the Magnetic shield will be desactivated if the health of the Prototype reaches 1 or less.

Passive for Magnetic Shield (need a name) : unlocked for Cybernectics 3 + Optimized Capacitors 3 + Titanium Skeleton 3
Not sure yet what it will be, either I take the removed deflector shield which reduces every damage received by the prototype like the old immortal shield, or other idea to determine.

T.R.O.L. Protocol : unlocked for Titanium Skeleton 3 + Optimized Capacitors 3
The Prototype enters a hibernative stance, increasing his regeneration, but preventing to move or attack. Provides 20% chance to remove an ailment each seconde.
Increases life regeneration by 10, but drains energy over time.
"Let's take a rest."

Hook : unlocked for Titanium Skeleton 3 + Cybernetics 3
The prototype can pull an unit to him. Armored, massive excepted.
40 energy
5s cooldown


Still to do :
- Improved smoke grenade
- Magnetic shield (have I said 50 times that I don't know at all how to build this skill ?)
- passive for Magnetic Shield
- Rifle butt can target armored (should work, still need to test)
- New levelable offensive ability (explosion around the Prototype)


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Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Znimu » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:10 pm

Thinking to a pull for the ability unlocked by TS 3 + OC 3.
The Prototype would pull an ally. :)
So with big jumps which would allow the Prototype to jump on a cliff like the Lift Boots, it could be interesting.

Kami no Varou
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Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Kami no Varou » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:04 pm

I see... that you're still struggling between Energetics and Optimized capacitors. :mrgreen:

First feedback : it is nice. As polyvalent as expected from a super-experimental-exoskeleton, not too redundant, interesting abilities and mechanics.
Second feedback : it is probably too efficient and might end up in-game by taking the rôle of super-Cyborg. Well, the issue might be due to the Cyborg too.
Third feedback : we have an interesting duality between Cybernetics + Critical Targeting + Magnetic Shield = ranged gameplay and Titanium Skeleton + -unknown offensive ability- + X-Ray = melee. You can commit more on supporting by taking the three stances to have Magnetic Shield + T.R.O.L Protocol.
Fourth feedback : Emergency battery and Magnetic Shield passive sounds both like overkill : the first give the Prototype that already has significant increases in Mechanical (BTW 1pt in Mechanical = 15 energy, just sayin'), given how polyvalent he is, giving him too much boosts in energy will make him very powerful. The second allows the Prototype to tank, in addition to protecting his teammates and to his regeneration ability, once again, that's just too much - the Cyborg can tank efficiently, u can regenerate, protect and tank (and at least the protection is efficient, even if possibly unpractical against undeads).
Fifth feedback : that abilities names edit was petty.

Analysis completed.

Conclusion (personal) : too polyvalent and efficient, both are nice, but being the two at the same time completely makes the Cyborg (and possibly other classes) obsolete.

Suggestions :
The prototype has many sides : the X-Ray and offensive ability (shockwave like seemingly) (btw my pulse thing suggestion is still accurate) makes it contact oriented, but not tanking, so more kiting.
The Critical targeting makes him ranged DPS oriented.
The Magnetic shield + T.R.O.L makes it supportive.
One of these three is excessive in term of efficiency of your MoS.

Exemples of solutions :
Be more different to the Cyborg : let it be the ranged DPS + tank role and emphasize on kiting + protecting. Give him an improved Burst Fire that improves the burst fire (woah) to incease DPS and in addition, makes it so each time u run the burst part refreshes, so when u stop u are always at the beginning of a new burst (kiting emphasize) ; give a trail ability (fire, toxins, plasma, smoke, anything) that either damage or have utility effects (slow, damage increase) on the zombies (kiting emphasize) ; let him the energy transfer ability (support emphasize) ; ditch the ranged damage stance (replace it by the trail ?).
Else, emphasize ranged gameplay but where the Cyborg tends te be a bit a solo class, emphasize grouping (area of improved life/energy regen ? Channeled slowing/damage increase aility ?) and give a proper ranged offensive ability.

You can also buff Cyborg.

Once again it is a personal point of view, but seemingly, u are as efficient as cyborg when starting with Critical Targeting and Cybernetics, but then get way more useful later on with all those abilities and the proper energy boost from Optimized Capacitor - while the Cyborg at least is limited in his usage of his different skills by his energy.
I mean, tell me if u disagree, but the overall impression is that u can do as well as the Cyborg, but so much more...
Now, the cyborg has reconnaissance possibilities and ur class has none, but those are not exactly oftenly used, so once again, the problem might come from the Cyborg more than from the Prototype actually - even if I think right now he is capable of a lot more than many other classes. And the Cyborg is a very good class atm.

Does that sound like a good enough feedback ? ^^'
No worry if u disagree with most what I said - I feel I'm often disagreed by most - but I maily think for sure the batery and the passive shield are overkill.

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Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Znimu » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:37 pm

Thanks for your big feedback.

Hm yes I forgot to nerf Optimized Capacitors to 3 mechanical per level.

I will check again your pulse.
The prototype has indeed the capacity to stay very close to undeads in smokes. Probably packing them before to release the explosion around him.
But he has nothing to tank actually, he can only defend the others. If he uses the magnetic shield beeing alone, it is totally useless.
The magnetic shield is support oriented of course, but the T.R.O.L. is for himself only, so it is not supportive. Maybe the T.R.O.L. could be considered as a tank ability, but having testing it, it doesn't remain long enough, a plasma shield lvl 1 is better to tank. It is more a quick heal, but it disables totally the prototype during the heal.

Having tested Critical Targetting, it is a lot less efficient than Burst Fire. Can't really explain it, except that the slow times of the burst system become very less annoying with the Burst Fire, while with Critical Targetting you keep the usual burst system.
I even think to add a little attack speed bonus in addition to the Critical Targetting.

The prototype has no way to gain Energy. The energy transfert was linked to the Deflector shield which provided energy to the Prototype each time he is damaged. So the Prototype needed a way to gain energy.
The amount of energy gained with the Emergency Battery may be decreased though.

Anyways the Cyborg needs at least to have his stealth tree rethought.

And remember that every value may change to balance this Prototype :)

But what about the pull ? ^^'

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