New class : the FP-500 Combat Walker

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Znimu
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New class : the FP-500 Combat Walker

Postby Znimu » Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:08 pm

In the years 2137, the commander Ravensword secretly sends an encrypted message to the Top secret corporation NGT-X which is in develop of new weapons and machines for the coming outwar with the umbrella corporation. After 12 years of working, the first Combat Walker was born ! Named the FP-500 Walker for his fire power and could widstand a hall army with one machine on the battlefield.

New class : the FP-500 Combat Walker
Mechanical armored battle mecha.
Concept by Yéhara.

- balance probable -

Some specific basic points :
- sight : 30 (other MOS have 15) ? (not fully sure yet, needs some tests)
- move speed : 2.5 (other MOS have 2.9), can be increased levelling Chassis to reach 2.9
- health points : 1100
- can't be healed nor buffed by a medic, can be repaired by an engi
- attacks with 2 mounted miniguns
- mags of 500 bullets
- reload time : 20s (?)
- available only in regular modes and PMC, for difficulties > normal ?
- 300 energy

- Chassis :
The UT Army has built a strong and robust chassis for the FP-500.
Each level increases the move speed of the FP-500 by 0.1, and increases fitness, dexterity, and mechanical skills by 1.
Level 1 : Turbo
Level 2 : Self Diagnosis System (+2 PV / s)
Level 3 : Jam Immunity
Level 4 : Reloads 20% faster
unlocks engine overheating (attack speed boost)

- Marksmanship :
The usual marksmanship.

- Belt Linking :
Level 1 : +80 bullets
Level 2 : +160 bullets
Level 3 : +250 bullets

- Rockets :
The FP-500 fires 2 thermo guided rockets.
Level 1 : 1200 dmg, 150 energy, CD 45s
Level 2 : 1600 dmg, 130 energy, CD 45s
Level 3 : 2200 dmg, 115 energy, CD 45s
Level 4 : 2600 dmg, 90 energy, CD 45s

- EMP Rockets :
The FP-500 fires 2 thermo guided EMP rockets. These rockets stun units in the area.
Level 1 : 100 dmg, 175 energy, stun 1.5s, CD 45s
Level 2 : 200 dmg, 150 energy, stun 2s, CD 45s
Level 3 : 400 dmg, 1130 energy, stun 3s, CD 45s
Level 4 : 600 dmg, 115 energy, stun 5s, CD 45s


(- Turbo :
The FP-500 has an increased move speed (+40%) for 4s, 20s cooldown (to be balanced).
Still to decide if the FP-500 will fly during the turbo, or if I give him a jump instead)

(- Cluster Rockets :
The FP-500 fires 2x3 rockets in the targetted area.
CD 2min20 ?
5600 dmg ?
120 energy
Unlocked for winning Nightmare mode with the FP-500 <= 10 hits)

_____________________________________________________________________

Still to do :
- check if an engi can repair, particuarly when dead
- Belt Linking
- Rockets
- EMP Rockets
- Cluster Rockets

I want to keep this class relatively simple. But I'd like to allow 2 builds :
- 1 move speed build with Chassis
- 1 DPS build with I don't know what yet, I may build a tree instead of Belt linking, which would increase progressively the DPS and the number of mags loaded too at the same time
Marksmanship could be customized too in the way of a DPS build.
Both rockets trees could enhance the move speed by a bonus weight reduction or something. Just my actual thoughts :)

HGWU
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Re: New class : the FP-500 Combat Walker

Postby HGWU » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:08 am

I was actually working on something like this in a test map but this is far more advanced :o

My thoughts on the unbalanced part was:
- Having to start with 30 sight radius right off the bat is just plain out too much and it being a mechanical unit i'm pretty sure you plan to make it have 20+ range. All MOS have 15 sight radius and most have 15 range, imagine if sdm were to have this type of sight with its outstanding range, heck you wont even need to flare in a pmc game. Now imagine a FP-500 Combat Walker with 30 sight radius, 20+ range, and a way faster weapon speed than sdm, pmc's wont even have a chance of touching you. What I was thinking is making its sight radius maxed to 20 by upgrading the chassis (possible increase by +1 every level and maybe +2 at level 4 chassis), so basically its sight radius will be the same as all the other MOS at start (15 sight radius, have flares be useful now...).

- 500 mags to start off with is also too much, knowing the unit will have belt link I would suggest starting mag size at 200.

- Since mag count is alot lower balancing the reload time to 15 seconds would work well as upgrading the chassis to level 4 will make the unit reload faster

This is just the way I would see how it'll balance

Znimu
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Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: New class : the FP-500 Combat Walker

Postby Znimu » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:29 am

Thanks for your opinion.
We will study it, the FP-500 is strongly linked to the new incoming mode (not for soon), so have to check some things balance side.

I agree that 30 is too much for the sight. It is mainly for the rockets and EMP rockets, as they have to target an unit and can't be sent blindly like the cluster rockets. No good idea for now.

Maybe start with 300 bullets / mag then each level of Belt Linking increases by 150. And would change the name to big mags or something to create a full tree including the big mags.

I think too that 20s to reload is too long.

Kami no Varou
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Re: New class : the FP-500 Combat Walker

Postby Kami no Varou » Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:50 pm

Nice one. tbh at start I was like "dafuk it's broken". Well, on second thought I guess it's alright, but I'd rather have it not be so polyvalent.

My thoughts : not sure how pertinent it is to have 2 rockets skills. And that stun is damn long. Also the 1130 energy cost on level 3 might be a bit overkill (xD).
On a combat walker I'd prefer a shorter stun and a shorter cooldown - it fits more and it's better if u have low mobility + high DPS (I assume the radius is not huge).
I'd rather have it not being able to jump at all. Yeah, sounds crazy gameplay wise, but if u think a bit, if u stay aware of the fact u cannot jump, u can position yourself to avoid being trapped. Maybe the turbo can have a pushing effect on non-massive zombies to help.
I think that Belt linking is a bit weak - weaker than AR and with 2 mounted miniguns, I expect a higher firing rate.
Not sure how pertinent it is to keep mechanical agility and fitness stats (walker fitness would be hilarious though).
Maybe you could think about splitting Chassis into Chassis and Weaponry. So you can focus on mobility in Chassis and DPS in Weaponry. Now, haveing Belt linkng + Marksmanship + Weaponry would probably be redundant if going for DPS.
On the other hand, you could make a progressive improvement of turbo and add some more stuff (you alread added life regen and turbo, maybe a jet-pack jump with a high cooldown on a high level to serve as a jump).

Note that those are thrown thought, and that they don't fit all each other. I love the idea of the battle station with damn firepower, miniguns and rockets, and I understand the need for mobility in UAR, I am worried about accessing the combination of both.

Also, u didn't say anything about items.

Znimu
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Re: New class : the FP-500 Combat Walker

Postby Znimu » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:50 pm

I will remove Dexterity, Fitness and mechanical for the vehicules classes. But then I will have to calculate to give some good equivalent stats.

I think I will do :

MOVE SPEED :
- Chassis :
The UT Army has built a strong and robust chassis for the FP-500.
Each level Improves the duration and the move speed bonus of Turbo, adds 50 HP. (the base HP of the FP-500 would be 1000).
Level 1 : Turbo
Level 2 : Self Diagnosis System (+5 PV / s)
Level 3 : Jam Immunity
Level 4 : Reloads 20% faster
unlocks engine overheating (attack speed boost)

Turbo level 1 : +25% move speed for 10s
Turbo level 2 : +30% move speed for 15s
Turbo level 3 : +35% move speed for 20s
Turbo level 4 : +40% move speed for 25s

- Heavy Weaponry (was Rockets) :
Improvements of the heavy weaponry leads to a weight reduction allowing a better move speed for the FP-500, while improving the rockets efficiency.
Adds 0.1 move speed per level,
4 levels of Rockets as before.

DPS :
- Marksmanship :
Marksmanship is your ability to accurately fire, reactively fire, and focus under stress.
Increases base damage by 5, and improves critical shot per level :
Level 1 : 8% chance to do 2x
Level 2 : 10% chance to do 3x
Level 3 : 12% chance to do 4x
Level 4 : 14% chance to do 5x

- Main Weaponry (includes Big Mags) :
Study on the FP-500 integrated miniguns have allowed significative improvements.
Each level increases the size of the mag by 150 (base mag size is 300), the range of the miniguns by 1.5, and reduces the reload time by 2s.

ENERGY :
- EMP Rockets :
As before, but each level will increase the energy max and regene amounts. Still to study.



Studying for a special jump, not sure how it will really work for now as it will depend on what I success to do. I don't know too how it will be unlocked, maybe with a special victory requirement like the cluster rockets.

For the items, the FP-500 won't be able to use most of the regular items. He will have specific items.

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Billyum
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Re: New class : the FP-500 Combat Walker

Postby Billyum » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:18 am

I am seeing many potential problems with this Combat Walker MOS in terms of both gameplay and balance. A few people had suggested a Combat Walker MOS back in UA3 and they more or less had the same problems as this one, However their idea wasn't nearly as developed as what you have here. This was the whole reason why I made my Reaper MOS, To get around the gameplay and balance issues of a full-fledged Combat Walker.

1. Lack of movement speed, Insane firepower:

It makes sense to counteract his high damage with slow movement, But there are some unintended problems that arise from this. First off it would heavily incentivize camping. Smart players would set this behemoth up in Thalim protect it with barricades and probably LNs, It may even be a replacement for the LN rally point in terms of defensive potential. This also steps on the Automatic Rifleman a bit, His whole gimmick is being the slowest MOS and having high dps to compensate.

2. Not being able to be revived by a medic, Revived by Engineer:

This takes away a bit of a key part in the Medics role of keeping team mates alive, Reviving players. By making the Combat Walker revived by the Engineer, The Medic loses a bit of it's role to the Engineer, Which may not necessarily be a bad thing. In a Nightmare or Insane game any team should have an Engineer anyway for the cades and stuns, But what about in a pub game? Sure it would be nice to see Engineers more often in pub games, There are a few classes that are underused in pub games such as the PL, Cav scout, ghost, FSS. I just don't want Engineer to be added to the list of "Required classes" (Medics + dps classes) every time someone picks Combat Walker.

You could somewhat get around this by making more classes that could repair and revive the Combat Walker such as Anubis's Electrician or my Field Communications Technician (*Shakes fist* One day I'll start working on you FCT!), But it would still be another "Required MOS" that wouldn't be needed so badly otherwise.

Another option is to make it so the Combat Walker's pilot ejects when his mech is destroyed and then becomes biological and therefore can be revived by a medic. However this has two problems with it, How would he get his Walker back? Would he build a new one in the field, Or have one Air dropped for him? How can the UT Army afford to keep sending this newb Combat Walkers every time he dies? Can I get a Combat Walker? Joking aside it would seem that the only option that makes sense is to have a new Walker air dropped for him by some ability when he is in "Pilot form". Though there is still a problem, I believe this was already done in a spin off of UA3 called Undead Assault Wake. A few friends told me that UAW has a "Gundam Pilot MOS" that spawns in Combat Walkers and can eject on destruction. I wouldn't say that UAW is very well known but it has been out for a while now, At least a year.

3. Marksmanship:

Why does the crit chance improve on each level? It could just stay 12.5% on each level like the normal marksmanship.

Znimu
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Re: New class : the FP-500 Combat Walker

Postby Znimu » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:08 am

1. Yes I know, I worry too about this. But should be lowered by the rework of the SFAAT, which I will study just after this new class. Note that this Walker will not be available in Survival modes.
Anyways it is why I'd like to increase the difference between the 2 possibilities : DPS or move speed.
So either the Walker will have a decent move speed (but still slower than every class if I am not wrong : 2.9 with a boost slightly better than a borg, so a borg remain faster), or a high DPS. I want it to require the assistance of the whole team kiting for him, else he dies. Maybe just a concept for now, will have to think more about it maybe.
I think the slow move speed is already a big step in this direction, as if the Combat Walker want to move to the docks for an example, he will need several soldiers to kite around him I think, or he will take a serious risk.

2. Yes, too bad that Anubis disappeared before to share me his work on the Electrician (who was almost done :triste1: ). I am seriously thinking to add some repair kits as new items and maybe other items. Would be like First aids but for vehicles (or maybe it would busy the user of this repair kit, while the Walker can't directly use it).
Indeed the Combat Walker may be frustrating in full public games, as he may require a solid team-play to be fully efficient. Well it leads to the direction I want for UAR : teamplay ! Even if most public players play selfish, I think that I should not care too much about it.

3. Because I have separated the range bonus from Marksmanship, to give it to Main Weaponry. So I have up a little Marksmanship for the Walker. For now it is just some thoughts. I want to lower the base DPS, but I have not decided how for now. Because of course if I lower the base DPS, it needs something to up it as the Walker evolves in a game. There will have items of course, but it may not be enough, I need something in the DPS trees too I think.

About the ejection of a pilot, I don't know, it is very DVA oriented ^^'
Anyways it would add some work, I will think about it, and decide later :)

Znimu
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Re: New class : the FP-500 Combat Walker

Postby Znimu » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:12 pm

STILL TO DO :

- Special jump
Maybe it will be unlocked when the FP-500 wins a Survival mode without dying, just an idea, as initially the FP-500 should not be available in Survival mode (have to test if the Fire power of the FP-500 allows to just camp or not in survival modes, if it can it would not be allowed in survival modes), but it could be a great team challenge to win and keep the Walker alive in addition. What do you think about that ? :)

- Lvl 4 Chassis (so engine overheating)
- Marksmanship trigger side

- Main Weaponry (4 lvl instead of the 3 levels of Belt Linking)
Base mag : 350 bullets
Each level :
+ 100 bullets per mag (big mags)
+ 1.5 range
+ -2s to the reload time


- Heavy Weaponry (include Rockets)
- EMP Rockets
- Special items (repair kits, boosts for the Walker)
- Camos
- SIs
- Pilot ?

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Billyum
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Re: New class : the FP-500 Combat Walker

Postby Billyum » Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:37 am

Znimu wrote:What do you think about that ? :)


The Combat Walker would have the same problem as the AR and SFAAT do in Survival mode, Classes with low mobility are quite difficult to play in Survival and as such really don't do well.

My points still stand:

1. It would heavily incentivize camping.

2. It may be even stronger than the current SFAAT + LN rally point.

3. This also steps on the Automatic Rifleman a bit, His whole gimmick is being the slowest MOS and having high dps to compensate.

4. Engineer would be added to the list of "Required classes" (Medics + dps classes) every time someone picks Combat Walker.

Znimu
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Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: New class : the FP-500 Combat Walker

Postby Znimu » Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:50 pm

1. It is why I will need some tests to decide.

2. No idea, LNs auto-heal themselves, a Walker can't, and will even need either an engi, or someone who has a repair kit. So at least a walker can't really make the human shield for long. Still thinking about specific ailments for the Walker, when he is damaged. Maybe ailments which won't go away magically but would require repair.

3. Well the Walker is a sort of big AR. I hope that it will be enough different to be interesting.

4. Indeed, even thinking to allow 2 engi in a game. Not sure yet, but a single engi may not be able to repair the vehicule class + do his defense repair job in Thalim. Particularly if the Walker is not AFK in Thalim... And other vehicle classes are incoming too.
May need to find a balance with the repair kits too.

Be aware that the FP-500 Walker will require 90K WO ;)


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