Cavalry Scout Reconnaissance

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Kami no Varou
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:22 pm

Cavalry Scout Reconnaissance

Postby Kami no Varou » Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:42 am

I feel CFF is unadapted to Cavalry Scout and asks to get it replaced.

A while ago, a discussion occured about the Cavarly Scout CFF because 5500 exp is fast to reach and CFF is a very dangerous tool in the hands of new players. We talked about making the Cavalry Scout require more exp (switching requirements with Cyborg for exemple) or adding a exp requirement specially for using CFF.
And I disagreed with all of these, because a team game is also about helping and teaching your teammates, and this game is also about learning. So I've been pretty much called idealists by some, and told in real games it wasn't how it worked, and between trolls or people trying it a chaotic way, it was a real problem.

Well, I still think the same and my feedback about CFF has absolutely nothing to do with this, although it would solve the problem.

1st : Having 3 classes with CFF is a lot. CFF is not supposed to be a common tool.
2nd : The tree is called Reconnaissance, cause that's the role of the Cavalry Scout. I can't imagine how it would belong to a scout to take such a decision as to call artillery support. He's supposed to communicate what he sees and let his Platoon Leader (of FSS) take this decision.
3rd : He can already use Claymore in combination with some explosives if he wants to deal with things by himself before it reaches his team.
So, he don't need the CFF, nor does it fit him.
At least I think so.

In the meanwhile, it has been requested the possibility to carry weapons for other members - using a new SI has been proposed.
So I suggest replacing the Cavalry Scout CFF by a Backpack, giving him 1/2 extra inventory slots in his backpack, in which he can put anything (including weapons that don't fit him and armors). But, since it is in his backpack, he doesn't get any bonus for items in his backpack, nor can he use them.
So basically, those slots are only to carry things - let's say to bring stuff to his team for exemple. To me it both fits more, is more useful and solve a couple issues/requests at same time.

Thoughts ?

anubis
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:23 am

Re: Cavalry Scout Reconnaissance

Postby anubis » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:18 pm

Kami no Varou wrote:CFF is not supposed to be a common tool.

Kami no Varou wrote:I can't imagine how it would belong to a scout to take such a decision as to call artillery support. He's supposed to communicate what he sees and let his Platoon Leader (of FSS) take this decision.


Not true though. It is simply a radio call to the nearby artillery and is one of the duties of a Cavalry Scout in the US army: "Calls for, observes, and adjusts indirect fires." from Wikipedia article.

Kami no Varou wrote:3rd : He can already use Claymore in combination with some explosives if he wants to deal with things by himself before it reaches his team.


Perhaps a difference in play styles here? I have seen people use it as a delayed MGL for groups of zombies. I think it is much closer to the satchel charge than a Claymore, in fact.

I believe switching Cyborg and Cavalry Scout rank requirements are still the best solution to this, even though it does not make much sense from a realism point of view to require being a Captain or SGM to be a scout. New players will neither be able to use CFF effectively, nor be able to kite well, which is an important duty of the Cavalry Scout in-game.

As I stated many times, I think it is a bad idea to balance the game according to people with low or average "skill" - games should be balanced to top level play with some consideration taken for average level as well. I disagree with the idea of crippling a class to make it newbie friendly - I don't think it is the correct way of fixing this problem. You have met my idea of having a rank requirement for CFF with the same criticism, with which I agreed after a short amount of discussion.

In the meanwhile, it has been requested the possibility to carry weapons for other members - using a new SI has been proposed.


Just for the people who did not see the discussion: It was proposed to modify CL SI to do this so it would be useful.

Kami no Varou
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:22 pm

Re: Cavalry Scout Reconnaissance

Postby Kami no Varou » Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:37 pm

As I stated, I didn't take the CFF requirements for newbie in consideration at all.

I really think it is redundant, barely useful, and somewhat misplaced. Well it seems that last point is wrong though, I have to say I don't make any research when making suggestions - when I post a link (which is rare), it's about something I knew and looked to share it - so I might lack knowledge.

I still think Scout would make a better use of a extra slot than the CFF. Having Claymores + Disarm (so better use of explosives), plus a whole tree on grenades, plus CFF - it's over redundant to me. Why not then, at least, make a tree for all those cleaning abilities and let Reconaissance be about reconnaissance ?

And indeed, the idea of easy access of Cyborg and a more difficult one to Scout is an idea that doesnt please me any bit. My idea was rather to make a command to disable CFF from Cavalry Scout. Or to simply do nothing and teach players to use it properly - including when to not use it. But that was not supposed to be the point of the topic.

JaVa
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:32 pm

Re: Cavalry Scout Reconnaissance

Postby JaVa » Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:40 am

I generally like the idea of backpack but I would rather add it as part of existing improvement rather than replacement of CFF.

Maybe it could be added to soldiers with str 10+ or something like that. Alternatively as part of Soldier 2(?)
a.k.a. Akira

Znimu
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Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: Cavalry Scout Reconnaissance

Postby Znimu » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:48 pm

I guess that I will have to play Cav Scout to get an opinion myself.
My first thoughts are that the CFF can probably be usefull to a Scout. But on the other hand, if there is a Cav Scout + a PL + a FSS, and if the 3 use CFF it becomes annoying, having to wait for the others CFF to land, it breaks the timing to use CFF.
Maybe it is the real issue, I don't know.
I won't remove CFF from the Cav Scout. But maybe an improvement somewhere could be found.

About the backpack, it is a good idea, but I am afraid that it is complicated to do. The SC2 inventory system is a big mess. To add supplementary slots may require a lot of work, it is why I prefer the idea to give an inventory to a drone. Could give a scouting drone to the Cav Scout, this drone could have a little inventory. Just an idea.

Kami no Varou
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:22 pm

Re: Cavalry Scout Reconnaissance

Postby Kami no Varou » Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:06 pm

Well I have no idea how it does work, but even by creating a new inventory with 1/2 slots that you have access only when this skill is activated instead of adding those spots would be difficult ? Else the scouting drone is a very good idea, although I fear it would be too strong if we don't set carefully his speed and vision sight.

(and beside the backpack suggestion, I still think CS skills are very redundant)

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Billyum
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Re: Cavalry Scout Reconnaissance

Postby Billyum » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:36 pm

Anubis is right, Though I disagree with switching the ranks for Cyborg and Cav Scout. Cav Scout is the the first recon specialist that you unlock, By that point you already have two dps classes [Rifleman and AR], one class that can tank [Flamer], And two classes with good AoE [Rifleman and Flamer]. If switched, The only recon option you would have early on is Flare Rifle, Which is a lot harder to play than Cav Scout.

Kami no Varou wrote:(and beside the backpack suggestion, I still think CS skills are very redundant)

Frag grenade is the redundant skill and needs buffed in some way to be worth picking over marksmanship. CFF, Claymore, and the Cav scout's entire Reconnaissance tree is balanced fine the way it is [Though the hotkeys for Binos and Field camera should be switched so that it's that same as Ghost, SDM, and all the other classes with binos].

anubis wrote:Just for the people who did not see the discussion: It was proposed to modify CL SI to do this so it would be useful

Re-posted for the people that didn't read it the first time. CL would provide +1 inventory spot along with the increase in amount of mags carried before being encumbered.

Todesbagger
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:04 pm

Re: Cavalry Scout Reconnaissance

Postby Todesbagger » Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:32 pm

Even if this an older post, my experience when I was ne was, that the Scout offered me very early a new role, besides medic and dps.
While learning the game, the CavScout provided me with a versatile skillset that helped me improve and prepared me for other roles, like the Ghost with his recon abilities or the FSS with his strikes; because knowing, where are keypositions for cameras/motion sensors are, or a feeling for the timing of Artillery or ion cannons.

Since both, knowledge of the map and a feeling for the timings require time to aquire, starting early is a good thing.

And still, the CavScout is a class with a lot to master, effectively using the arty strike, placing useful claymores, gathering items, providing vision with flares, motion sensors and cameras, kiting,... you know the drill...

I'd say leave them for beginners, that want to learn more advanced classes, for the simple minded, there is still the automatic rifleman. :D

HopeBringer
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:27 pm
Location: France

Re: Cavalry Scout Reconnaissance

Postby HopeBringer » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:15 am

Euhm... cf from PL and Scout only do 1k damage .-.

Leave this to FSS which does MUUUUUCH more with it.

Znimu
Posts: 1197
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: Cavalry Scout Reconnaissance

Postby Znimu » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:55 am

The damage bonus of the FSS is provided to everybody launching a CFF.
But the FSS can have a very shorten delay, while the cav Scout and the PL can't. And only one CFF at a time, on other CFF would be queued so it would have an unknown delay.


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