New class : the Prototype

General announcements about UAR.
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Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Todesbagger » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:52 pm

So I did some testing with him and also sucsessfully finished a NM run with him.

I went for a support build, went AR and Discipline, needed the first 3 levels to grab both hook and the jump.
First action was, i went to the northern outpost and pulled the two policemen up the cliff, and they managed to stay alive there until the phantoms arrived. (Had to pull them down again since the pilot refused to leave without them)

I enjoyed defending City east, as i could always drop a smoke there if needed and could always pull people up the cliff that were in a pinch.
Fully upgraded i could hook with a 2sec cd, 30 energy cost on a 10 range which is quite a lot.

Found some cliffs where ground units can't reach you if they aren't ranged, can jump or have cliffwalking, posted that picture in discord.

He still did a decent ammount of damage to t3 groups, due to his automatig rifle.

In civilian escort missions i could mignate damage on the civs with my shield, or hook them up a cliff to pull them away from Zombies.

To create space, doing a long jump into a mob chasing other with the rifle butt stance and then doing a kinetic wave helps a lot.

Even kiting with no movement speed loss in a smoke grenade is a situative tactic and quite efficient

Though i still have to get used to the hotkeys, (z+v for a hook is a bit far off the oher hotkeys, so needs some more practice), i can clearly see the potential in this class, as it is a bit more skill based than the average rightclick dps or one-click nuker.

I'll keep testing him. :)

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Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Znimu » Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:53 pm

Thanks for this detailed, positive and optimistic feedback Todes. It is really appreciated, while everybody say that the Prototype is weak or I don't know what.

The points which bother me are :
- the kinetic wave : I have enlarged the area of effect so it has became weird and probably processor greedy, it needs a rework ;
- the X-rays make him look like the Enforcer of UAC, I guess that it is still amplified by the marine shield which makes him still more look like the Enforcer of UAC ; I think that I will remove this marine shield, as he is not really tanky except with the magnetic shield so the marine shield is not really justified.

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Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Todesbagger » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:44 am

In the hands of a skilled player, the Prototype shines in a very basic core concept of UAR: Nothing goes as planned.

As a support, lets compare him to a medic. A medic heals people when they got hit, or revive them if they didn't make it. Both are reactive abilities, which means you can use these abilities only after something went wrong.
If everything goes as planned a medic is pretty useless unless he went for augmentations.

The Prototype however is more action oriented support. While the medic shines after the battle (not considering heroig rescue attempts), the Prototype does so during the battle.
We all had those one-hit concussions or broken legs while a horde was closing in and you think "well shit i'm done". The medic has to endanger himself to rescue you, the Prototype with his two knockback abilities and his hook can help you way safe, creating much more space.
And with his jump/hook combo, he enables much more escape routes than normal, being especially helpful in chokepoints, where you can easily get trapped between two approaching hordes.

Okay, lets' assume everything goes as planned, no one needs help, then the basic automatic weapon of the prototype is still superior to most rifle classes, for example medic, scout or javelin.

So the Prototypeis like a jack of all trades, versatile and adaptive, with a flexible role, filling in where needed, if you have the levels for it.

Leveling a prototype requires some foresight, what you will need, and some sort of plan what you want to do/ do better.

Problem with T3? pick a point of titanium skeleton and the rifle butt will keep them away. If thats not enough, pick another Point in TS if you want to jump away, or one in Kybernetic Wave for a stronger knockback. If your buddy is the slow one, one point cybernetics and you can simply hook him.

all three desicions can solve the problem, but what you choose depends on your playstyle. If you like to survive, grab cybernetics, run faster and then drag others along. Kinetic if you have those suicidal tendencies and like running into mobs, and the jump if you like not giving a fuck at all.

You like scavenging? Cybernetics 3 gives you the mobility while adding a charge. If you want to go further, pick 2 points in Titanium skeleton for the jump, or 3 points in optimised capacitators and the T.R.O.L protocoll makes you self sufficient, removing alignments and healing you for a little bit. It also can let you ignore badly timed/thrown smokes for a quick runaway.

Lastly, to make use of your versality, you need levels, thats why i start with AR and Discipline for the exp. TT if you feel you are too slow, energetic if you are more offensive oriented and are frequently using your abilities.

Maybe I should just write a Prototype guide. :D

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Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Znimu » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:33 am

Yes, you could write a guide. :)

I think that the DPS possibilities of the Prototype hide the support possibilities, as it is easier and faster to see the result of DPS (few undeads and it is seen), while the support possibilities need special situation which don't arrive always.
So you are right, a skilled player (who is able to check eveybody and to have a global vision of the area) may do amazing actions with the Prototype. For the others it is a lot easier to go the lazy no-brain DPS way.

Oh I had forgotten, I have to bigger the visual of the Magnetic Shield for the lvl 2 and 3, and to make this Magnetic sheld working for damage from skills too.

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Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby robert » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:45 pm

So let's talk about a standard nightmare composition:
2 sfaats, 1 engineer, 2 medics, 2 dps (ar, sdm, walker), 1 cav scout. You have 4 slots remaining and classes to choose:

Cyborg: after testing prototype again, cyborg is still a better dps in my opinion, I can handle encounters much better.
Second Engineer: a pro engineer on missions can be the difference between mission successful and mission failed,
he is op on crowd control.
Javelin gunner: Can do a little crowd control, AT, HE, explosives. Also in the hands of a pro player is a very good choice.
Ghost: ghost can excel at support and also at dps.
Flamethrower: crowd control, tons of damage and real tanking.

Let's talk about prototype abilities:
The knockback abilities: you get 2 seconds with T3 zombies. Any of the classes above can wreck the T3, not just damage them a bit. Ghost with cryo, flares, Borg with cluster + dps, Jav gunner with paralysis and HE, explosives, etc.

His pull ability is nice, but very situational.
His magnetic shield is so weak that with a few hits you are out of health, even on full damage reduction. Plasma shield + gravity grenade/maxed discharge is by far superior.
His smoke is also nice, but javelin can do a better job + a ton of dps.
His jump is useful if you are not pursued by zombies, if there is a horde behind you, you are done.

So you have 4 slots and this is the competition for prototype.

Okay, lets' assume everything goes as planned, no one needs help, then the basic automatic weapon of the prototype is still superior to most rifle classes, for example medic, scout or javelin.

This is wrong on so many levels. If you go prototype, you will probably to a support build.
I can tell you that I can get a damage score close to a Automatic Rifleman with Rifleman.
Don't even think he is close to a pro javelin, 10k with one hit + HE + crowd control + cooking explosives is 10 times more useful.
And the last comparison is the medic. Any class can do better damage than medic.

So the Prototype is like a jack of all trades,

Yes is a jack of all trades, but his abilities are so situational that any of the classes above can do a better job on mission and fill most of the thing that prototype can do.
In my opinion, prototype in not an always pick for a game, is just a class that will be carried by the rest of the team hoping that he will help once every few minutes.

And let's not forget that lazy no brain dps is what wins the missions. Most people have to go dps and the support roles must be few and must be used in combination with dps. Support classes are there for one main reason: to help the dps either with abilities or by preventing the zombies to reach the dps, so they can shoot.

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Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby robert » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:17 pm

New update, after I played a little:
Kinetic wave cast time is one second, does 400 damage for 100 energy, that's too low and too slow for me.
Big jump 1 sec is too slow.
I think you get injuries with shield on, it transfers to you. Shield can't block exploding zombies. You are dead in each of this cases.
If kinetic wave would be reworked and magnetic shield also, maybe also increase armor while magnetic is up, prototype would really be useful. Now, the only useful ability is hook and smoke grenade.

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Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: New class : the Prototype

Postby Znimu » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:20 am

I had written a damn book, answering to everything, but I got bored, and nobody would read such a 2kms long post.

The prototype is not very good versus T3.
But he is the best weapon based DPS versus T1 in early and mid games.

The thousands of T3 that some classes kill non-stop thinking they are doing the whole job, are not the real treat in a game.
But the several dozens of T1 are this big treat which can destroy every games.

The Prototype has the best smoke grenades of UAR, nobody has same, and they are almost instant lvl 3.
Nobody else can defend neutrals or other players.
People have to learn when to use his abilities, instead of saying that it is useless because they don't react the several times when it would be usefull.
This is a new role, a defensive support, and nobody is used to that, so we need to build some reflex, to be attentive to unusual things. If you look with the eye of a DPS, you won't success with a supportive prototype.
Actually a support Prototype looks like a medic in some ways. You follow a group, you take care of everybody. If anybody is on trouble, you help him, and so on (to DPS is secundary here, there is other soldiers for that).
But a support Prototype always watch if someone gets in melee with undeads, in which case, either he hooks if it is a single ally, or he uses his kinetic wave to repulse the treats.
So the medics can react relatively slowly while a support Prototype can't or becomes useless.

Remember that a rework (and some bug fixes ^^) of the Prototype is planned, several things are already noted, if you have ideas, I am interested.

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