New MOS : the Alligator LK19

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Znimu
Posts: 1190
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

New MOS : the Alligator LK19

Postby Znimu » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:19 pm

After 2 months and a half of pleasing team work with Yehara, the Alligator LK19 is ready to enter the fight.

New class : the Alligator LK19
Mechanical armored battle helicopter.
Concept and intense testing by Yéhara.

Terrain 025.jpg
Terrain 025.jpg (101.14 KiB) Viewed 1721 times

The helicopter is armed with special rockets with very long range, and when they reach their final level (4th unlock) they will become a force of nature. The Alligator LK19 has a range of 70 which means that it's the same fire power range than the call of fire of the FSS. Enjoy the power !

Some specific basic points :
- sight : 27
- health points : 650
- can't be healed nor buffed by a medic, can be repaired by an engi
- attacks with a miniguns
- mags of 200 bullets
- reload time : 6s
- available only in hard+ modes and PMC
- 300 energy
- move speed : 2.5, can be increased levelling Equiment lvl 5 to gain +1, has a speed boost consuming fuel (the fuel bar replaces the sprint bar).
- refill on a helipad (Thalim or Aiport) : flying above it will engage the auto pilot then start refilling the fuel.
- has to land to pick items or to open weapon caches.
- available only in hard, insane, nightmare and PMC.

- Equipment:
Level 1 : Flashlight
Level 2 : Energy regeneration +2, unlock Bino
Level 3 : Jets x3 (move speed x3 but fuel consumed moving x5)
Level 4 : ISR (like the ghost)
Level 5 : move speed +1, +100 HP, +100 energy, +2 range

- HE Rockets :
Fires HE rocket at the target point, dealing damage in an area. Deals reduced damage to armored/massive.
Improves cast time, range, cooldown and cost with each level.
Level 1 : 1250 dmg, 150 energy
Level 2 : 2500 dmg, 120 energy
Level 3 : 3750 dmg, 105 energy
Level 4 : 5000 dmg, 90 energy
Can damage allies in the area of effect.
The lvl 4 unlocks the special single rocket mode.

- Rockets Napalm :
Fires Napalm rockets at the target point, dealing high damage in an area, then burning the ground for 15s.
The Napalm of these rockets is mainly used to reach higher temperatures during the explosion, increasing the damage.
Improves cast time, range, cooldown and cost with each level.
Level 1 : 2000 dmg, 270 energy, 30dmg/s, 45s CD
Level 2 : 4000 dmg, 240 energy, 70dmg/s, 40s CD
Level 3 : 7500 dmg, 210 energy, 110dmg/s, 35s CD
Level 4 : 10000 dmg, 190 energy, 150dmg/s, 30s CD
Can damage allies in the area of effect.
2min cooldown.

- EMI Plasma Rockets :
Fires an IEM Plasma rocket at the target point, dealing damage in a large area.
Double damage versus mechanical targets.
Improves cast time, range, cooldown and cost with each level.
Level 1 : 100 dmg, 290 energy, area 6, cd 2 min
Level 2 : 200 dmg, 270 energy, area 8, cd 4 min
Level 3 : 350 dmg, 260 energy, area 11, cd 6 min
Level 4 : 800 dmg, 250 energy, area 14, cd 10 min
Can damage allies in the area of effect.

- Nuclear Rockets :
Fires a Nuclear Rocket at the target point, dealing high damage in a large area.
Following the explosion, the area will irradiate any biological entity for 60s.
50000 dmg, 60min cooldown.
The nuclear rocket is available as soon as the chapter 1 starts.
Biological units are equipped with a Geiger counter so they will know if they approach a radioactive area.


Can use Recoil, AA and Shield generators for Vehicles.

4 supplementary unlocks.

Yehara and I hope that you will like it, constructive feedbacks welcome :)

6eXo9
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:06 pm

Re: New MOS : the Alligator LK19

Postby 6eXo9 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:07 am

wooo hoo! i was gone for a few months and BAM a new copter! cool!

Okay, lovely! wow so op haha! but LOVELY finally something that will use the SI of TN!

now feedback, i like the concept of refuellling! makes it interesting. What intrigued me is the radiation haha

RADIATION:
i would love to see smth along the lines of a little more obvious irradiate area for the nukes.. like a glow if we get irradiated? sometimes i play without sound haha and then suddenly i die hahahah and its way too fast a death! Would be fun if zombies would lose life, but also mutate inside radiation. Or rad sickness could make u sick with weird mutations later on some good some bad. DU rounds could also cause rad sickness maybe .

Copter:
energy seems to be an issue, but i guess thats for balance? but 10k dmg for napalm with dps stacks is way too op lol i would suggest removing that and making the copter generate missiles of diff types. This would make it more versatile and then u could pick the next rocket to be EMI/Napalm/HE/smoke/plasma/tar or something, so one skill for more rockets/cd another for diff types/energy use reduction. If not i find myself shooting just 1 napalm... and thats it?

This would free up one skill set for an alternative thing like diff bullet types. So change to HE bullets on next reload (40% penalty to massives, but small aoe), tracer rounds (lights up target for 5s), DU rounds (same as DU rounds u pick up) , so instead of making it on/off like incendiary, u have to reload +2s for a new type of rounds and use say 50 energy.

but it's a lovely char to play honestly. Love for it to have nice camos :D Just that now there seems to be only 1 way to play it, unlike walker. but comparing walker missiles to alligator's idk why walker's is so weak vs those of alligator!

GoLKsan
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:03 pm

Re: New MOS : the Alligator LK19

Postby GoLKsan » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:50 pm

I'm sorry if I may sound rude at some points, but here's my honest opinion.

1. Why limit copter only to hard+ games? What's wrong with people playing class they worked so hard to gain? It's not like copter is super-invulnerable and you have to fuel it all the time! What's the point of working hard, making a class that won't see much action outside closed lobby? If new players could see that with enough dedication they could play a TRIPPIN' copter(!) more of them would incline to stay. And hard aside, we come to next point...
2. 130k exp to unlock!!! Is way, wa-a-a-a-y too much of a cost, considering FSS and Grenadier are 65k already, making people play SO MUCH to unlock 1 class feels a lot like those pay-to-win browser games where you need to buy all kind of speed boosts to build anything and not wait a week, or just pay for "Epic-Conrad-the-Barbarian-slaughterer-of-noobs" hero. I think ~90k (same as walker) would already be big enough.
I know Znimu said he wants people "to feel they earned something", but grindy grind is not fun.
Here's "quick marfs":
Roughly, game yields ~1500 exp, if you play hard+ occasionally, not fail too much and some games are won on pub with normal. And that's generous assumption, considering most fail games yield 300-400, and if we speak about hard+ mods you can go into negative.
65000 / 1500 = 43.3(3) and round it to 44 (cause screw maths). So, you need 44 (1500 exp)games to get from FSS to copter. But wait, if you are new guy? It's 88! Infinity on the double (if you turn it 90'o)! Double the number once more if you are unlucky and/or count all possible fails.
Wait, there is more! Let's round-up the number to 90 (for easier maths) and add time to our equation:
90 games, roughly 1 hour each (the rounded 1500 exp one) equals 90 hours! Again, double the hours if you fail a lot.
I am just wondering, was there any "marfs" included when such big number appeared?
3. I didn't play Alligator yet, myself (i'm still at 117k. exp) but abilities look... weird. It seems inspiration for abilities was taken from Javelin gunner and grenadier. A LOT. Such kit (aside from equipment) would look better on some kind of MLRS (Multi-launch-rocket-system, google it) vehicle, not helicopter...
More ideas to come (about abilities), but I'd like to discuss first two points, first.

Znimu
Posts: 1190
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: New MOS : the Alligator LK19

Postby Znimu » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:14 am

90 hours seems not that much for a MOS which can one shot anything allies included.
I have 5398 hours playing dota, so excuse me if 90 hours seem not that much to me... :hehe:
Casuals may need time to get it, but it is normal on my opinion, this MOS is dangerous and requires to know what to do (to have a good vision to know where to go, when to use rockets or not, etc.).

GoLKsan
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:03 pm

Re: New MOS : the Alligator LK19

Postby GoLKsan » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:49 am

Alligator is dangerous? Can one-shot stuff? Gee, where have I heard it?
That's right, Javelin gunner can do the same thing! He's even more fragile, less mobile and can f*ck people up with his back-blast ability. Only better thing about him is that he doesn't have to go to helipad, to refuel himself. That's it.
Greandier can also one-shot stuff and kill his team via arsenal of grenades, if not accurate.. Thankfully, back-blast doesn't plague him. He does have to reload his wonder-gun, though.
And, tbh most MOS's are dangerous and need to know what to do. Only safe ones are medic by lack of aoe dmg skills and prototype because his gun can't hurt allies.

At 130k exp people aren't even plain veterans, that's some hardcore die-hard dedicated players at that point.
I also see no explanation to why Aligator is hard+ exclusive?
Not speaking about casuals grinding enough to get a helicopter, they won't even see one with it being hard+ only.

Znimu
Posts: 1190
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:25 am

Re: New MOS : the Alligator LK19

Postby Znimu » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:36 am

Every MOS can't one shot a Walker or has a nuclear bomb.
For hard +, it prevents people from playing solo helicopter.

The helicopter is appart, he is annoying for some points, so it is fine that it is not easily available. It changes the games, to a point which is sometimes bothering.

I remember UA2 with 400k required for the last MOS... (or was it 500k ?)

Casuals sometimes pick Nightmare for fun, just to see. They can easily pick Hard to be able to play the Alligator, even if they may fail. They can still join a clan for a better chance of success.

GoLKsan
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:03 pm

Re: New MOS : the Alligator LK19

Postby GoLKsan » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:49 pm

For hard +, it prevents people from playing solo helicopter.

And what's wrong with people doing that? You won't complete most of missions alone, even sfaat can hardly do that and he has to let Thalim get rekt to do that.
Someone made a solo hard+ run? Good for him, it means he wasted a lot of his personal time and nerves to do that. And he/she most likely failed many quests while doing that. That's just means they are equally crazy and/or skilled, it doesn't mean game is bad or "way too easy".
I remember UA2 with 400k required for the last MOS... (or was it 500k ?)

I honestly never played one and idc. Did UA2 also gave you roughly 1500 exp per win? That's a mistake of the past, you can fix it! Besides, did UA2 also have 3 separate specialization trees with non-shared exp, unlocking different classes at it's peak?
They can easily pick Hard to be able to play the Alligator

No, they can pick hard+ to see someone else, who played 100+ hours play alligator, not play it themselves.
And they pay with game being hard as hell for them, with zombies being much fatter, faster and more numerous.
I can understand wanting to make it an achievement, but by both making it ~100+ hours play and only being able to play it on hard+ you just make it very niche class that hardly sees action.

Every MOS can't one shot a Walker or has a nuclear bomb.

Walker is supposed to be ally, right? Why measure it? Also, aforementioned Javelin and Grenadier can one-shot it just fine. Hell, every multi-rocket user like cyborg or engineer and plasma grenade users can do it as well.
And speaking of nuke ability... Considering its retarded CD of 1 hour it would have been better to make it Alligator-only consumable random drop item, just like special Gatling-guns for walker.

I would also like to hear other experienced players opinion about this. May be, make a poll?

lStealtherl
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:42 pm

Re: New MOS : the Alligator LK19

Postby lStealtherl » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:53 pm

GoLKsan wrote:
I would also like to hear other experienced players opinion about this.

I do not have strong opinions regarding exp barriers. I read/heard the requirements, took classes that fit well with EN SI and played for fun til I accumulated the needed exp.

As for Alligator. I believe it NEEDS to be locked behind Hard+ modes. Reason being that Alligator class is a powerhouse on whole other dimension compared to the other classes. You can leisurely play this MOS and still get top damage consistently, which was SFAAT's previous regularly achievement if anyone cared. If you try-hard with it, 2x total dmg over SFAAT wasn't farfetched either (though that's probably in OB mode, otherwise 1.5x which is still alot).

Thus, imagine that concentrated firepower following along missions. With good placements on the rockets, you'll be clearing 2~3 worth of zombie spawns with little to no effort, due to its vision and its instantaneous rockets. Also, don't forget the unending barrage of normal attacks of the Alligator. It really gets its bang for the buck of 200 rounds per magazine, with short reload as well if you were to compare it to walker (still not far behind as human character). It's a class pushed to the boundaries of game balance, despite the (unnoticable) restrictions it has applied to it.

In other words (imo), if people wants this class to be available in Normal mode, it has to be hit HARDER by nerf-hammer since it'd break the Normal mode, which I doubt anyone wants when players finally unlocks it.

GoLKsan
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:03 pm

Re: New MOS : the Alligator LK19

Postby GoLKsan » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:42 pm

Thank you for giving us your opinion.
In other words (imo), if people wants this class to be available in Normal mode, it has to be hit HARDER by nerf-hammer since it'd break the Normal mode, which I doubt anyone wants when players finally unlocks it.

Or, you know, let people decide it themselves?
Like, if you feel Alligator being too powerful for your tastes just ask your teammates not to take it? Or, may be, if someone wants to feel powerful and wreck zombies up on normal - let him do it? Since he played a lot to earn ability to do so?
Also, you wanna say Walker doesn't reach top damage charts?

lStealtherl
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:42 pm

Re: New MOS : the Alligator LK19

Postby lStealtherl » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:28 pm

Or, may be, if someone wants to feel powerful and wreck zombies up on normal - let him do it? Since he played a lot to earn ability to do so?

You don't really see anyone playing on recruit to feel powerful, do you? :P
But even then, with more experience under their belt, players more often than not pick higher difficulties because that's where they believe their abilities are at, i.e where fun is supposed to be at.

Also, you wanna say Walker doesn't reach top damage charts?

Against a skilled SFAAT for #1 spot? No.
Alligator involved? Both can dream.


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